4 ms·

Why do I feel so pessimistic about this?

tjr225 4y ago
How old are you?
singularity2001 4y ago
Maybe because it's too little too late and it can't stop the ever growing pressures of overpopulation. But then since each degree of climate change adds a significant 7% humidity to the atmosphere, I have a faint hope that one year a torrential rain will turn the sahara into a green savanna again.
- danaris 4y ago
  Neither our planet in general, nor its comfortably-livable surface area, are overpopulated in the aggregate. We have enough resources to provide for everyone here now, and everyone likely to be here within the next several decades—at which point, according to the best predictions I've seen, overall population growth should be slowing or stopping.
jeromenerf 4y ago
I find the initiative somehow formidable, commending hope and thus the fear of seeing it fail.
lbriner 4y ago
Because you are a pessimist? Even if it only half works, it is worthwhile, which is why lots of anti-climate change action is worthwhile. Add up all the little bits and maybe it delays catastrophic climiate change long enough to get some new ways of solving it, or long enough for a younger generation to take it more seriously, maybe it makes the rise in temperatures slightly more bearable, the sea rises slightly less or the species extinctions fewer in number. Certainly a better investment than the 4x4s, overseas holidays and technology that lots of rich people spend their money on!
- switchbak 4y ago
  Or maybe all the straw banning and feel good recycling efforts (and similar efforts with little actual impact on CO2) consume our energy and attention and allow us to feel good about doing something. Meanwhile we've not made any significant headway in tackling the problem, and things continue to get worse. If we want to solve this, we're going to have to have sustained focus and effort devoted to solving the hard problems. That means regulation, international cooperation, changes in how we live our lives, impact on corporations, etc. There is no easy way out of this.
  - tomtheelder 4y ago
    FWIW straw bans and recycling are typically not really about carbon at all, more about the impact of waste. Recycling can sometimes have a meaningful carbon impact, but it can also be carbon positive in many cases. But I really dislike the attitude of "well this thing isn't going to solve climate change, and the real problem is industry/agriculture/government/etc, so we shouldn't bother doing it." Of course we should. We should all try to make incremental changes to respect the environment more. It's just lazy reasoning to try to justify continuing to live a lifestyle that damages the environment without having to question it.
    - switchbak 4y ago
      I'm not sure if you think that's what I'm proposing, my last sentence makes it clear I'm not. I'm a fan of recycling and basically any other well intentioned goals. I'm not a fan of them when they're cynically abused by big corporations to make people feel as if they're "saving the world" so they can go on living a life that continues to push us over the edge.
gdhkgdhkvff 4y ago
Because being cynical is the easiest route to feeling smart. It takes no effort to dismiss something. It’s a mindset that unintentionally optimizes short term comfort at the expense of long term growth. Do you need to be fist pumping and leading the charge? No. But unbound cynicism is really a sad way to live.
- jamiek88 4y ago
  > Because being cynical is the easiest route to feeling smart. It takes no effort to dismiss something. This was a difficult lesson I learned only in the past five years or so. I realized I was aping my asshole father. Being more open to people and ideas has been way more fun.
  - powerhour 4y ago
    > Being more open to people and ideas has been way more fun. I recently had the same realization. I haven't fully squelched the cynicism but I am trying hard to assume the best of people, that they're posting in good faith, and to take them at their word. It's definitely more difficult but I feel it is more satisfying. Further, I try to avoid this scenario: https://xkcd.com/386/ https://xkcd.com/386/ I find it not only exhausting but also unproductive.

How old are you?

singularity2001 4y ago

Maybe because it's too little too late and it can't stop the ever growing pressures of overpopulation. But then since each degree of climate change adds a significant 7% humidity to the atmosphere, I have a faint hope that one year a torrential rain will turn the sahara into a green savanna again.

danaris 4y ago
Neither our planet in general, nor its comfortably-livable surface area, are overpopulated in the aggregate. We have enough resources to provide for everyone here now, and everyone likely to be here within the next several decades—at which point, according to the best predictions I've seen, overall population growth should be slowing or stopping.

jeromenerf 4y ago

I find the initiative somehow formidable, commending hope and thus the fear of seeing it fail.

lbriner 4y ago

Because you are a pessimist? Even if it only half works, it is worthwhile, which is why lots of anti-climate change action is worthwhile. Add up all the little bits and maybe it delays catastrophic climiate change long enough to get some new ways of solving it, or long enough for a younger generation to take it more seriously, maybe it makes the rise in temperatures slightly more bearable, the sea rises slightly less or the species extinctions fewer in number. Certainly a better investment than the 4x4s, overseas holidays and technology that lots of rich people spend their money on!

switchbak 4y ago
Or maybe all the straw banning and feel good recycling efforts (and similar efforts with little actual impact on CO2) consume our energy and attention and allow us to feel good about doing something. Meanwhile we've not made any significant headway in tackling the problem, and things continue to get worse. If we want to solve this, we're going to have to have sustained focus and effort devoted to solving the hard problems. That means regulation, international cooperation, changes in how we live our lives, impact on corporations, etc. There is no easy way out of this.
- tomtheelder 4y ago
  FWIW straw bans and recycling are typically not really about carbon at all, more about the impact of waste. Recycling can sometimes have a meaningful carbon impact, but it can also be carbon positive in many cases. But I really dislike the attitude of "well this thing isn't going to solve climate change, and the real problem is industry/agriculture/government/etc, so we shouldn't bother doing it." Of course we should. We should all try to make incremental changes to respect the environment more. It's just lazy reasoning to try to justify continuing to live a lifestyle that damages the environment without having to question it.
  - switchbak 4y ago
    I'm not sure if you think that's what I'm proposing, my last sentence makes it clear I'm not. I'm a fan of recycling and basically any other well intentioned goals. I'm not a fan of them when they're cynically abused by big corporations to make people feel as if they're "saving the world" so they can go on living a life that continues to push us over the edge.

gdhkgdhkvff 4y ago

Because being cynical is the easiest route to feeling smart. It takes no effort to dismiss something. It’s a mindset that unintentionally optimizes short term comfort at the expense of long term growth. Do you need to be fist pumping and leading the charge? No. But unbound cynicism is really a sad way to live.

jamiek88 4y ago
> Because being cynical is the easiest route to feeling smart. It takes no effort to dismiss something. This was a difficult lesson I learned only in the past five years or so. I realized I was aping my asshole father. Being more open to people and ideas has been way more fun.
- powerhour 4y ago
  > Being more open to people and ideas has been way more fun. I recently had the same realization. I haven't fully squelched the cynicism but I am trying hard to assume the best of people, that they're posting in good faith, and to take them at their word. It's definitely more difficult but I feel it is more satisfying. Further, I try to avoid this scenario: https://xkcd.com/386/ https://xkcd.com/386/ I find it not only exhausting but also unproductive.