4 ms·
In the old days, there was this idea of “selling out” and we as a culture decided that it was bad. Monetizing a thing immediately called into question its integ
by chubot 4y ago
In the old days, there was this idea of “selling out” and we as a culture decided that it was bad. Monetizing a thing immediately called into question its integrity, and more importantly, the integrity of the artist. But then an interesting thing began happening in the late 90’s and early 00’s. The idea of selling out lost its negative connotation.
Chuck Klosterman's recent book "The Nineties" talks about this a lot! And honestly it's spot on. I had forgotten about this, and not realized how much it disappeared as a cultural concept.
https://www.amazon.com/Nineties-Book-Chuck-Klosterman/dp/0735217955 https://www.amazon.com/Nineties-Book-Chuck-Klosterman/dp/073...
We all used the phrase "selling out" frequently (on the east coast of the US), but I remember one high school friend who invoked it constantly. Calling people "sell outs" (i.e. lacking in authenticity) was a common insult.
Grunge bands and in particular Kurt Cobain had almost a pathological obsession with "selling out", to the point where it had some part in his death. Even popularity was seen as a sign of selling out -- it was better to be true to your indie roots.
There are some interesting quotes in the book from Cobain and contemporaries, and the author talks about influential movies at the time that dealt with the concept.
I was never a Calvin and Hobbes fan, but it's definitely interesting and notable that the creator avoided "selling out".
While I think we were too obsessed with it back then, I think a concept that probably needs more respect today. You could even talk coherently about Google "selling out", although that concept may now be foreign to many people. There was a notion of authenticity and that you cared about the mission, i.e. organizing the world's information. But that is long gone :-(
In retrospect the obsession with "selling out" in the 90's was a reaction to capitalist values affecting more and more parts of life. Though, being a teenager, I didn't realize that, and I just said what my friends said!
It was a way to keep your peers in check. But it's sad that people don't even notice it anymore. They would wonder why you did NOT "sell out".
- ethbr0 4y agoGoogle sold out when they bought DoubleClick. (Bought out?)
- jleyank 4y agoGoogle came pre-sold out, given that the existed to sell ads.
- wintermutestwin 4y agoYou don't need to go as far forward as the 90s and grunge. Rush was skewering musical sellouts at the beginning of the 80s: "For the words of the PROFITS were written on the studio walls. Echoes with the sound of salesmen, of SALESMEN (sung with the highest levels of disdain)"
- ConceptJunkie 4y agoSo was XTC, although they were never anywhere as big as Rush. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnvO6lrZSxo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnvO6lrZSxo
- dasil003 4y agoZappa released "We're Only in It for the Money" in 1968.
- chubot 4y agoOh sure, I think it's cyclical ... Those sentiments were around in the 60's and earlier, probably millenia earlier. When I grew up in the 90's I assumed "selling out" was just "a fact", but it turned out to be more of a temporary meme. Maybe it was a reaction to the materialistic 80's. But it's almost guaranteed to come back in some form. A good word I learned from Graeber and Wengrow's "Dawn of Humanity" is "schismogenesis": the tendency of humans to define themselves by difference from their neighbors. It explains a lot about the left/right divide, why the most vicious wars are fought between neighbors like Iran/Iraq, etc. So eventually there will be some youth culture that defines itself against "hustle" culture, etc. BTW Klosterman has also written about Rush :)
- angry-tempest 4y agoI was about to recommend the same book. Also, recommend Klosterman's interview with Tyler Cowen [1] if you want to get a sense of what the book feels like. [1]: https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/chuck-klosterman/ https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/chuck-klosterman...