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>According to the Kapor Center Tech Leavers Study, unfair treatment is the top reason women leave their tech jobs. Women of color experience unfair treatment at

by treis 4y ago

>According to the Kapor Center Tech Leavers Study, unfair treatment is the top reason women leave their tech jobs. Women of color experience unfair treatment at even higher rates The study she cites contradicts her point and the entire piece. It found 40% of white/Asian men, 38% of underrepresented men, 36% of underrepresented women, and 28% of white/Asian women left because of unfair treatment. Her statement technically stays within the bounds of facts but it's misleading to the point of being a lie

f17 4y ago
[flagged]
Mezzie 4y ago
I hate the conflation of 'POC' and 'underrepresented' as well. I'm a white female. I'm also gay, disabled, from a rural area, and neither of my parents have college degrees. Yeah, I'm TOTALLY proportionally represented in tech. Same for say, a blind gay white dude from an Eastern European country.
- treis 4y ago
  They counted gay and similar as underrepresented. Assume they did the same for disabled but not sure
  - Mezzie 4y ago
    Thanks for the clarification; still seems odd to contrast 'underrepresented' with 'white/Asian'. Disingenuous framing and not a proper comparison.
anon291 4y ago
The heterodox view here is that unfair treatment is not a reason men leave tech jobs because men are more resilient to it. For myself, my wife left her tech job because she didn't like the way she was treated. This leaves me forced to work my tech job whether I like my boss or not, because we have several mouths to feed. I don't really have much of a choice, and I venture many many many men feel the same way. A women who leaves the workplace is following a socially acceptable script to do so. If she has kids, absolutely no one will accuse her of being a deadbeat, useless, etc. But God forbid, should a man express a desire to leave, it's a big problem, even if his wife is happy providing. Not saying it's right or it's wrong, but I feel a lot of these articles about women in the workplace ignore the fact that the main reason there's so many men in the workplace is that the men basically have to work, so will stay even in jobs they hate. It's why the stereotypical "do-nothing" employee, the guy who's burnt out but been there forever and no one's going to fire him, is a man -- women leave, men don't.
- lapcat 4y ago
  Leaving tech is not the same thing as leaving work. Also, the compensation level of the people leaving has to be considered. It makes more sense to leave if you're on the lower level of compensation and promotion than if you're on the higher level (unless you're super rich and can retire early). Frustrated and underpaid is a bad combination for employee retention.
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    Compensation levels in tech are still higher than most other places. It'd be pretty difficult to change careers into something tech-adjacent later in life and still maintain the same compensation. More likely you'll have to traverse the ladder again and this time with worse compensation. Relative compensation is a different story. >Leaving tech is not the same thing as leaving work Article would have to follow up on this either way. Where did the women leaving tech go off to? From the male side of the perspective, GP is absolutely correct. Men have far more incentive to tough it out in tech than women do once at the point of gaining the financial benefits of living together, for quite a few reasons. Wouldn't be too farfetched to assume this causes tech to further optimize towards men, too, even if not intentionally sexist.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > Compensation levels in tech are still higher than most other places. Compensation levels in tech vary extremely widely by company, location, etc. > It'd be pretty difficult to change careers into something tech-adjacent later in life and still maintain the same compensation. Depends on how much later in life. > Men have far more incentive to tough it out in tech than women do once at the point of gaining the financial benefits of living together, for quite a few reasons. One reason would be if tech favors men in hiring, compensation, and promotions. If your wife is making more money than you but leaves anyway, that would be a little different story.
      - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
        >Compensation levels in tech vary extremely widely by company, location, etc. And compensating for those variations through medians and averages shows tech still tends to pay better on average. Clear exceptions being fields one can't easily pivot into without many years of study. >Depends on how much later in life. Disregarding age discrimination, soft skills will only allow you to pivot so far. That makes age itself rather inconsequential compared to raw experience. >One reason would be if tech favors men in hiring, compensation, and promotions. Another reason is that women put far, far more importance on men's wealth and income than vice versa. Several cultures across the globe reflect this.

by treis 4y ago

f17 4y ago

[flagged]

Mezzie 4y ago

I hate the conflation of 'POC' and 'underrepresented' as well. I'm a white female. I'm also gay, disabled, from a rural area, and neither of my parents have college degrees. Yeah, I'm TOTALLY proportionally represented in tech. Same for say, a blind gay white dude from an Eastern European country.

treis 4y ago
They counted gay and similar as underrepresented. Assume they did the same for disabled but not sure
- Mezzie 4y ago
  Thanks for the clarification; still seems odd to contrast 'underrepresented' with 'white/Asian'. Disingenuous framing and not a proper comparison.

anon291 4y ago

The heterodox view here is that unfair treatment is not a reason men leave tech jobs because men are more resilient to it. For myself, my wife left her tech job because she didn't like the way she was treated. This leaves me forced to work my tech job whether I like my boss or not, because we have several mouths to feed. I don't really have much of a choice, and I venture many many many men feel the same way. A women who leaves the workplace is following a socially acceptable script to do so. If she has kids, absolutely no one will accuse her of being a deadbeat, useless, etc. But God forbid, should a man express a desire to leave, it's a big problem, even if his wife is happy providing. Not saying it's right or it's wrong, but I feel a lot of these articles about women in the workplace ignore the fact that the main reason there's so many men in the workplace is that the men basically have to work, so will stay even in jobs they hate. It's why the stereotypical "do-nothing" employee, the guy who's burnt out but been there forever and no one's going to fire him, is a man -- women leave, men don't.

lapcat 4y ago
Leaving tech is not the same thing as leaving work. Also, the compensation level of the people leaving has to be considered. It makes more sense to leave if you're on the lower level of compensation and promotion than if you're on the higher level (unless you're super rich and can retire early). Frustrated and underpaid is a bad combination for employee retention.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  Compensation levels in tech are still higher than most other places. It'd be pretty difficult to change careers into something tech-adjacent later in life and still maintain the same compensation. More likely you'll have to traverse the ladder again and this time with worse compensation. Relative compensation is a different story. >Leaving tech is not the same thing as leaving work Article would have to follow up on this either way. Where did the women leaving tech go off to? From the male side of the perspective, GP is absolutely correct. Men have far more incentive to tough it out in tech than women do once at the point of gaining the financial benefits of living together, for quite a few reasons. Wouldn't be too farfetched to assume this causes tech to further optimize towards men, too, even if not intentionally sexist.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > Compensation levels in tech are still higher than most other places. Compensation levels in tech vary extremely widely by company, location, etc. > It'd be pretty difficult to change careers into something tech-adjacent later in life and still maintain the same compensation. Depends on how much later in life. > Men have far more incentive to tough it out in tech than women do once at the point of gaining the financial benefits of living together, for quite a few reasons. One reason would be if tech favors men in hiring, compensation, and promotions. If your wife is making more money than you but leaves anyway, that would be a little different story.
    - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
      >Compensation levels in tech vary extremely widely by company, location, etc. And compensating for those variations through medians and averages shows tech still tends to pay better on average. Clear exceptions being fields one can't easily pivot into without many years of study. >Depends on how much later in life. Disregarding age discrimination, soft skills will only allow you to pivot so far. That makes age itself rather inconsequential compared to raw experience. >One reason would be if tech favors men in hiring, compensation, and promotions. Another reason is that women put far, far more importance on men's wealth and income than vice versa. Several cultures across the globe reflect this.