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> The ALU may ask you to sign an authorization card or share a QR code to fill out an online authorization card. > This is a legally binding document Ooh scary

• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• wahnfrieden 4y ago
  obviously amazon doesn't have a real case against unions, but they can try to use scary language to confuse people
  • _jal 4y ago
    "This will go down on your permanent record..." -- Bezos in helium voice I remember quitting from Krogers bagging groceries when I was a kid. I forget why, but I did give less than 2 weeks notice. Mr. Manager gravely conveyed that if I did this, I'd be barred from working for them again forever. Pretty sure my poker face then was not what it is now, but in any case I did not find that to be anywhere nearly as distressing as he seemed to think I should.
    • wahnfrieden 4y ago
      I wish r/kroger and r/antiwork would intersect more, it's so sad to see the experiences people post in the former
      • runnerup 4y ago
        r/antiwork is propaganda and true-believers amplifying that propaganda. r/Kroger and r/Walmart are real people just trying to deal with life as best they can.
        • wahnfrieden 4y ago
          • deleted 4y ago
            [deleted]
          • runnerup 4y ago
            What makes it incorrect? I'm a leftist and I can see that this is leftist propaganda. I don't necessarily disagree with all of it, but I recognize it for what it is! The vast majority of material on reddit.com is propaganda. The fact that lots of people buy into it and it becomes self-perpetuating doesn't make it any less propaganda. The fact that it was started by individual true believers also doesn't make it any less propaganda. Even if powerful groups aren't using r/antiwork to affect western economies (it would be incredibly neglectful not to at least attempt to leverage it), a grassroots organization of well-intending people can ALSO be its own engine of propaganda. The FAQ for r/AntiWork is full of "calls to action": > How can I effect change in my workplace? Resources: 30-minute overview on how to unionize.www.iww.org - Join your local IWW chapter for support in your own workplace or to support local organizing campaigns. www.amazoniansunited.org - Check out what amazon workers have been up to for inspiration. Legal handbook for labor action Don’t Stand up to your boss alone. You will get disciplined and possibly fired. Allow your boss to overhear your discussions about workplace conditions. Most businesses have a plan to shut down a union campaign before it begins. Try to organize a strike before less aggressive actions have failed. Start with approaching your boss as a group with your demands. Smaller actions can include work slowdowns, intermittent strikes, sabotage, picketing your boss’s house, public informational campaigns, etc. Make everything a political conversation. The current needs of your fellow workers can be addressed through workplace action aside from the larger conversation of politics. Do Get to know your coworkers on a personal level, and spend time with them outside of work. Solidarity can only exist if you understand your fellow workers’ needs and barriers, and if you are there to support them outside of the union campaign. Contact local unions to get support once a few of your coworkers are on board with organizing. Keep your scope small. Getting everyone from a seven-person department to call off on Black Friday will have more impact than 1,000 workers calling off around the country. ----------------------- Note that r/AntiWork is also incredibly hostile to any good-faith discussion which even potentially goes against their _prescribed_ norms and strict beliefs. Bans are handed out very frequently. There is a dedicated effort to create a self-reinforcing echo chamber. -------- Other propaganda subreddits: r/steroids (died quite a bit after r/steroidsourcetalk was closed, likely because the economic interest died with that) r/worldnews r/liberalgunowners (fascinating to watch this migrate from a kum-bay-yah liberal propaganda to a fear-mongering firearm manufacturer propaganda) r/entertainment r/StartingStrength r/ADHD r/UkrainianConflict r/publicfreakout --------- Some that are not yet propaganda: r/adhdmemes r/AustralianCattleDog r/woodworking r/walmart r/OSHA (surprisingly!) r/Construction r/IllegallySmolCats ------- Some that are borderline: r/Fitness r/Bodyweightfitness r/Target r/Homebuilding r/Credit
    • spacemanmatt 4y ago
      that lifetime ban on working for the Krogers may have represented a much bigger threat to Mr. Manager than it ever would to you
      • wahnfrieden 4y ago
        pmc and workers aren't allies
        • filoleg 4y ago
          How are private military contractors related to Kroger workers, and why are they expected (or not) to be allies in the first place?
          • wahnfrieden 4y ago
            pro managerial class
          • pseudo0 4y ago
            Professional-managerial class. Basically people with white collar jobs who have more sway than the working class due to professional moats (university degrees, accreditations) and more influence on society due to controlling to some degree how capital is deployed. The point here is that getting blacklisted is probably a much scarier prospect for the manager. PMC jobs typically have more stringent reference checks and employment history requirements. Meanwhile a low-wage grocery store clerk is going to have no trouble finding another shitty job. Typical minimum wage jobs just want someone who will show up and doesn't have a criminal record.
            • filoleg 4y ago
              Ah, makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I was suspecting that it wasn't referring to private military contractors here, but googling didn't net much in terms of an alternative that would fit there.
        • dragonwriter 4y ago
    • taurath 4y ago
      Earlier in my life I nearly died driving 50 miles to get into work as a grocery store clerk on no sleep because a manager called me and in no uncertain terms told me if I didn’t come in that day I’d be fired. I was raised to believe that a job is more important than just about anything, so I decided to try to go in as I was out of town. I crashed my car as I fell asleep at the wheel. It shouldn’t take that to get someone to realize the relative unimportance of a job, but the US culture (as channeled through my conservative parents, at least) doesn’t value anything higher than work and productivity in the service of capital as this deified virtue.
      • wahnfrieden 4y ago
        thanks for sharing, I'm glad you survived to learn that lesson
  • xhkkffbf 4y ago
    • kennywinker 4y ago
      Is this satire? It feels like satire. A perfect sendup of “both sides”-ism. If it’s not satire, I’ve only got one argument to offer: what are the odds that the advantages and disadvantages of both sides are equally balanced? Vanishingly small. So why would you “both sides” things when one is definitely going to be better. Figure out which side that is, and then advocate for it. That’s how progress happens.
      • the_only_law 4y ago
        > So why would you “both sides” things when one is definitely going to be better. Usually in an wish to maintain order and prevent chaotic conflict. Not going to explicitly say it's a good or bad thing, but that usually seems to be the intent.
        • wahnfrieden 4y ago
          capital is highly organized and well-resourced, keeping workers from attaining the same sounds reactionary
        • kennywinker 4y ago
          You literally just did a “both-sides” to social change. “Maintaining order” is an act of violence when people’s lives are on the line. A specific social change is either good or bad, there’s no room for people to stand in the middle and obstruct because they can’t be bothered to figure out if they value the risk of change more than the damage of staying the same.
          • the_only_law 4y ago
            No I answered a question. I very explicitly noted following the question I wasn't going to make specify judgement either way, not because "both sides" but to prevent over zealous users from trying to fight me on it as well as to keep the topic to what I've said as opposed to what people want me to have said so the they can enter their own tirade, which evidently failed.
• nathanaldensr 4y ago
  "How can we make the mundane and expected sound eeeeeeevil and dangerous?"
  • jballer 4y ago
    But did they cross state lines?
    • throwaway894345 4y ago
      Ironically, he didn’t even cross state lines (at least not that night), he was there the night before sleeping over at a friend’s house.
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      • tablespoon 4y ago
        What are you taking about?
        • throwaway894345 4y ago
          • tablespoon 4y ago
            Did that person have any connection to the Amazon Labor Union? I'm just trying to figure out how I was supposed to follow this subthread.
            • aliswe 4y ago
              na
            • throwaway894345 4y ago
              The “crossing state lines!” outrage was an example of someone trying to make the mundane sound evil and ominous.
• imgabe 4y ago
  What employment contract? They’re at will
  • edmundsauto 4y ago
    You would still be likey to have a contract, it would specify at-will and a slew of other clauses. It would not guarantee a term of employment, in the standard form (but could, if it were so modified).
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • resoluteteeth 4y ago
    > What employment contract? They’re at will Despite the colloquial use of the word "contract," there is generally always going to be an employment contract (agreement) in place. Similarly, people colloquially talk about having a "contract" for things like cellphones meaning a fixed term, but there is always an actual "contract" (agreement) with the terms of the service regardless of whether the plan has a fixed term or not and regardless of whether it's prepaid or not.
    • junofan 4y ago
      Contract and agreement are not synonyms. Contracts require consideration.
      • resoluteteeth 4y ago
        I inserted "agreement" in parentheses to clarify the meaning of contract as a type of legally binding agreement here as opposed to other usages of the word. I don't think this is a controversial definition of the word contract (for example Wikipedia's entry for "contract" states, "A contract is a legally enforceable agreement..."). I did not say that contract and agreement are synonyms that can be replaced with each other in all circumstances, so I'm not really sure that your comment is relevant to what I wrote. I was also trying to clarify that the employment contract might be titled "Employment Agreement" or something like that but is still a "contract."
• fatbird 4y ago
  If ALU gets over 50% of employees to sign the card, they can bypass a vote and declare themselves the union and petition for recognition of such to the NLRB (which will grant it unless Amazon can demonstrate malfeasance somehow). It’s a common tactic by unions and a common response by employers is to carefully but thoroughly explain this tactic to employees—-which they’re allowed to do, but it’s totally illegal to say “DON’T SIGN THE CARD” so it’s a tightrope to walk. When it happened at a facility at which I worked, the HR director read a script, showed a video, took no questions, and videotaped the entire thing to ensure that he could prove it was done legally. Of course, this is Amazon we’re talking about, so they may just go for it and plan to clean up the mess later. Walmart got away with that approach for decades.
  • whimsicalism 4y ago
    Yeah, if they can get 50% of employees on legal record saying they support the union, it is obvious that they don't need an election. Your language, IMO, is value-laden. Card-signing is a common "tactic" for unions like the presidential election is a "tactic" for deciding the next president.
    • fatbird 4y ago
      I am 100% behind Amazon employees unionizing, and I wish unionization was far more widespread. I wasn’t trying to impugn unions using the legitimate process to achieve legitimate ends.
    • mh- 4y ago
      Election votes are anonymous by nature. Card signing is not. I'm not opposed to unionizing but I take issue with the idea that getting 50% support means "it is obvious that they don't need an election."
      • kennywinker 4y ago
        It seems like you’re saying the lack of anonymity will inflate support for a union. I.e. organizers will be able to pressure people who would otherwise vote no on a union. Frankly, I’d be worried about the opposite. Knowing how aggressively amazon is fighting unions, if I worked there i’d hesitate to put my name down on paper - when I wouldn’t hesitate to vote in a secret ballot. If that’s the case, 50% support implies a stronger majority. Maybe that’s not always the case, but that’s what I’d guess is happening in this case.
• makomk 4y ago
  It's a bad thing if the people signing the card or filling out the form do no, in fact, want the union to represent them. In fact, if you look at those signs they pretty much all have one thing in common: the people they'd convince not to sign up to a legally-binding agreement that the union will represent them are those who are not aware this is in fact what they're signing up for, and in the case of the last one specifically people who aren't aware this isn't something Amazon is requring of them as a normal part of the job. Make of that what you will.
• Waterluvian 4y ago
  They’re transparently trying to exploit people not knowing any better and being horribly afraid about losing their jobs in a recessing economy. It’s despicable.
• IMTDb 4y ago
  >> By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are authorizing the ALU to speak on your behalf. > And thats terrible how? You really can't see the issue with authorising a group you have little to no control over, speak on your behalf ? I can totally understand that people share some views with what unions are currently defending. But the requirement on signing a paper that says "whatever the union currently says and will say in the future 100% represents my point of view" is a fair criticism of the union model.
  • pessimizer 4y ago
    > "whatever the union currently says and will say in the future 100% represents my point of view" Is that what it says? It says that you have to agree to be legally responsible for the union's opinions on netflix shows, or of your cousin's marriage? No, it says that you're agreeing for them to represent you with the company, not some made-up all-encompassing scaremongering paraphrasing of that.
    • AnimalMuppet 4y ago
      The same criticism still works, though. I can like their position for negotiating with Amazon today, without necessarily having to agree that I'm going to like it forever. Mind you, I'm not necessarily on Amazon's side here. Their scare-mongering is pretty slimy, to say no more. But IMTDb's objection is valid, even adjusted for your criticism.
      • naasking 4y ago
        That's true of any system based on democratic rule. It's not much of a criticism because it's still better than anything else that we've come up with.
        • KptMarchewa 4y ago
          At least in Poland there can be multiple unions in same company. Then, you can choose one that represents your views best
• eli 4y ago
  I mean, yeah. We don’t have to pretend it’s in good faith. This is obviously calibrated to make the union card sound as scary as possible while (they hope) stopping just short of being illegal interference.
• sieabahlpark 4y ago