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> Women developers hoping to move into management have far fewer role models who look like them than their male counterparts. That’s because for every 100 men w
by djohnston 4y ago
> Women developers hoping to move into management have far fewer role models who look like them than their male counterparts. That’s because for every 100 men who are promoted into a managerial role, only 72 women are promoted.
Trying to understand what this means. If women are a minority in technical roles wouldn't it be strange for these numbers to be parity? Proportionally I'd expect parity, so like, x% of men and x% of women move into management, but these absolute numbers don't make sense to me - you wouldn't expect 100 women to become managers for every 100 men, unless women and men made equal portions of the technical workforce which they don't.
Am I misinterpreting this?
- wwwaldo 4y agoyah, 100:100 women:men is a 1:1 ratio.
- civilized 4y agoI don't think so. Also, 72 to 100 is "far" fewer? If a division has 10 male managers and 7 female managers, it's not ideally equal, yes, but I think both genders have plenty of role models to choose from.
- throwaway123143 4y agoIf anything 10 male to 7 female manager ratio would only encourage female devs to move manager positions because developer ratio is closer to 10 to 1-2 at best
- Mezzie 4y agoThat's an astounding amount of progress in a short period of time, actually, given what the sex ratios looked like in the 80s or 90s.
- wahnfrieden 4y agothe point is it's a self-reinforcing issue. lack of representation, harms improving representation
- djohnston 4y agoI suppose I don't see how this is a lack of representation. 1:1 would be an overrepresentation. If you account for the existing distribution across the workforce it's closer to an equitable representation. You'd expect women in management roles to be roughly proportional to the percentage of women in tech.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago[flagged]
- djohnston 4y agoWat? It's basic statistics and probability. Replace women and men with red and blue marbles.
- willcipriano 4y agoWhat I've never received is an explanation of why we expect women and men to equally represented in all positions across the economy, but are ok with prisoners being close to 10:1 in favor of men.
- n4r9 4y agoI don't think anyone sees the gender disparity in incarceration and thinks "this is fine and normal". There is a lot of research going into understanding the causes, and effort going into programmes that combat young male delinquency etc... .
- onion2k 4y agoAre you suggesting we encourage women to commit more crime? Maybe they do, but they're better at getting away with it...
- seibelj 4y agoIt’s called the Gender Equality Paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-equality_paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-equality_paradox Research shows that when there is more gender equality in countries, the self selection for certain occupations by gender increases. This could lead you to believe there is something fundamentally different about men and women that makes them on average choose different careers.
- anon291 4y agoThe thing on average that's different between men and women is that women bear children and are then flooded with hormones that make them want to stay home, whereas a male sexually imprinted on a woman with a child wants to shower resources on the mother. Research has shown how both sexes hormones change with respect to having a child, and this is pretty much how things work. Why we should expect this to not have societal implications is beyond me. Too many articles talk about sex without talking about children, which is ridiculous, because children are an incredibly common human experience.
- 4y ago
- CrHn3 4y agoAre women really so limited that they can only identify with role models that look like them?
- commandlinefan 4y agoHow does having a role model change one’s ability to move into a managerial role and how morphologically similar does a role model have to be in order to be acceptable?
- rustybelt 4y agoGives me a new perspective on the struggles of my red headed colleagues.
- Traubenfuchs 4y agoFeminists often fall into the trap of "elite feminism": Demanding more women in leading / high paid positions when the basis where candidates are recruited from is mostly male. It‘s simply one of the many logical fallacies of feminism.
- itsdrewmiller 4y agoThe number is for all of corporate america, not tech. Check out slide 7 here: https://wiw-report.s3.amazonaws.com/Women_in_the_Workplace_2019.pdf https://wiw-report.s3.amazonaws.com/Women_in_the_Workplace_2... It goes from a 92:100 ratio for hiring to a 72:100 ratio for manager.
- djohnston 4y agoAha! 92 dropping to 72 is good evidence of systemic bias, I was misinterpreting the data thinking the citation was related to tech.