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Sounds like this calls for some browser extensions Beyond privacy I'm interested in generally a browser extension that disables things that provide free labor

Sounds like this calls for some browser extensions Beyond privacy I'm interested in generally a browser extension that disables things that provide free labor to for-profit enterprises, such as hiding the moderation queue (which even has an annoying persistent badge) on StackExchange sites, the one that asks me to provide unpaid labor to private equity and has various rules that sound nice if it were a public utility but primarily work to improve their SEO.

daniel_iversen 4y ago
Most likely can’t be fixed by an extension and also to the parent poster, Firefox can’t strip this info out because the encoded string (how I read the original question) includes the actual metadata about what’s to be displayed. Looks like fb won this round.
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
  I was actually wondering why the big trackers haven't implemented this yet and how much time it will take them to switch. I mean, the tracking part of the URL is so obvious it's just sitting there and asking to be removed. Most tech people do that, also some extensions, and now Firefox. So it was just a question of time.
- tyingq 4y ago
  At least for now, facebook has an endpoint that converts from new to old. https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=URL_ENCODED_NEW_URL_HERE https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=URL_ENCODED_N... Returns references to the older style url in the returned html. I also noticed it's calling that new style base64 string a "story_token" in places, and uses it in conjunction with "page_token" set to "VICE" in this case.
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    Thanks for digging this up! Looks like a path forward
    - rvnx 4y ago
      Nit picky but isn't this action actually illegal in some jurisdictions ? For example in France: « Obstructing or distorting the operation of an automated data processing system is punishable by five years' imprisonment and a fine of €150,000. »
      - CRConrad 4y ago
        But fetching data from an http server by giving it a URL is what it's for; how can that be "Obstructing or distorting" it?
      - wahnfrieden 4y ago
        maybe! lots of reasonable anti-capitalist action is illegal. it's good to be aware but nothing to be respectful of
- winternett 4y ago
  Not true if people just choose to stop or slow their use of Facebook. Most of my friends there are barely active. I never use the app, only desktop with ad blocking, but still, nothing there is really interesting to me, so I'm rarely on FB at all. Across the web I never use it to authenticate, and if a private company asks me for any personal info, it's usually inaccurate info that I enter. I have remembered a fake birth date, fake home address, and other details that I use for all these sites, unless they're related to commerce or legally justified purposes. We do not need to provide accurate info to private companies that mis-use our data (provided it is not required for our own reputational purposes).
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    the point isn't the one individual service or actor, these behaviors are incentivized and enabled systematically and will repeat
  - winternett 4y ago
    Golly is Facebook extremely boring, dull, and utterly a user experience nightmare... I miss all my friend's birthdays frequently because the experience is so undesirable and unenjoyable on it. Twitter is also fast becoming my least favorite thing to use as well because of a habitually botched user experience.
Hydraulix989 4y ago
By your same logic, participating on HN is free labor to a VC firm. I don't see how you can draw the line with a general-purpose extension other than simply actively avoiding things you don't want to do through your own volition.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  I agree with the logic, and am free to criticize even if I engage as an individual without power I think a good place to start would be with user awareness
  - Hydraulix989 4y ago
    That's called hypocrisy :)
    - wahnfrieden 4y ago
      I'm well aware and don't give a shit, I'm not the one as an individual causing the problems in the first place and have no individual power to correct it. But you're free to go spend your time and energy attacking victims of these behaviors as complicit, like a "gotcha" for why these powers deserve to go unchecked
      - nonsensikal 4y ago
    - CRConrad 4y ago
      "And yet, I see you participate in society." Sorry about the quote marks; from memory, so probably not an exact quote.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32118404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32118404
remram 4y ago
Isn't answering on questions providing free labor to StackOverflow too? Providing way more value to their company? Do you draw a line between answering and reviewing?
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  yeah I would like to have a public space to help my peers and am trying to build that in adjacent spaces
pronlover723 4y ago
free labor lol, they're providing a service. For free where free = no money, They give user a way to share with each other, ways to organize events, ways to sell things, ways to send messages with each other, ways to make calls to each other, ways to have video chat with each other, all for free (again free = no money). In return they put ads in your face and to make those ads more relevant they look at whatever data they can gather. I don't like be spied on but gees, they aren't getting free labor. They're paying like crazy. As someone that once at a > $1000 phone bill it's amazing to me I can video chat with friends all over the world via FBs services and pay no direct money to do it and that to keep up with them I can now just post to fb instead of send out a newsletter or write each individual person
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  I don't care, there are ways to build public goods services
- ipaddr 4y ago
  Many sites offer these things for free without the need to track you around the internet. Facebook's business model breaks social expectations of privacy. They make a lot of money because they sell other people your data through ad targeting. Facebook controls the barely tech literate crowd by offering an aol type experience. These services are popular with the masses. No one cares that they give data to facebook so they can be sold more things and leave them poorer. You end up paying facebook no direct money but you have less money and spent when you didn't need to.
  - winternett 4y ago
    The only time I fill out pop-up surveys is when I want to enter wildly inaccurate data bout myself. That time back when Facebutt forced everyone to use their government names (as if it was an authentic requirement) I was shocked at how many people caved into entering their full name. Companies are having a field day with all this data collection. I hope they get real karma for the deception.
dredmorbius 4y ago
The extension would likely need some sort of FB proxy in order to decode the provided URL to its canonical source. That is, when copying a FB URL, you'd take the supplied value, feed that to the proxy, get the translated (and presumably canonical OR), and feed that to the clipboard buffer or share dialogue. Needless to say, a fucking PITA.

daniel_iversen 4y ago

Most likely can’t be fixed by an extension and also to the parent poster, Firefox can’t strip this info out because the encoded string (how I read the original question) includes the actual metadata about what’s to be displayed. Looks like fb won this round.

hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
I was actually wondering why the big trackers haven't implemented this yet and how much time it will take them to switch. I mean, the tracking part of the URL is so obvious it's just sitting there and asking to be removed. Most tech people do that, also some extensions, and now Firefox. So it was just a question of time.
tyingq 4y ago
At least for now, facebook has an endpoint that converts from new to old. https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=URL_ENCODED_NEW_URL_HERE https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=URL_ENCODED_N... Returns references to the older style url in the returned html. I also noticed it's calling that new style base64 string a "story_token" in places, and uses it in conjunction with "page_token" set to "VICE" in this case.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  Thanks for digging this up! Looks like a path forward
  - rvnx 4y ago
    Nit picky but isn't this action actually illegal in some jurisdictions ? For example in France: « Obstructing or distorting the operation of an automated data processing system is punishable by five years' imprisonment and a fine of €150,000. »
    - CRConrad 4y ago
      But fetching data from an http server by giving it a URL is what it's for; how can that be "Obstructing or distorting" it?
    - wahnfrieden 4y ago
      maybe! lots of reasonable anti-capitalist action is illegal. it's good to be aware but nothing to be respectful of
winternett 4y ago
Not true if people just choose to stop or slow their use of Facebook. Most of my friends there are barely active. I never use the app, only desktop with ad blocking, but still, nothing there is really interesting to me, so I'm rarely on FB at all. Across the web I never use it to authenticate, and if a private company asks me for any personal info, it's usually inaccurate info that I enter. I have remembered a fake birth date, fake home address, and other details that I use for all these sites, unless they're related to commerce or legally justified purposes. We do not need to provide accurate info to private companies that mis-use our data (provided it is not required for our own reputational purposes).
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  the point isn't the one individual service or actor, these behaviors are incentivized and enabled systematically and will repeat
- winternett 4y ago
  Golly is Facebook extremely boring, dull, and utterly a user experience nightmare... I miss all my friend's birthdays frequently because the experience is so undesirable and unenjoyable on it. Twitter is also fast becoming my least favorite thing to use as well because of a habitually botched user experience.

Hydraulix989 4y ago

By your same logic, participating on HN is free labor to a VC firm. I don't see how you can draw the line with a general-purpose extension other than simply actively avoiding things you don't want to do through your own volition.

wahnfrieden 4y ago
I agree with the logic, and am free to criticize even if I engage as an individual without power I think a good place to start would be with user awareness
- Hydraulix989 4y ago
  That's called hypocrisy :)
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    I'm well aware and don't give a shit, I'm not the one as an individual causing the problems in the first place and have no individual power to correct it. But you're free to go spend your time and energy attacking victims of these behaviors as complicit, like a "gotcha" for why these powers deserve to go unchecked
    - nonsensikal 4y ago
  - CRConrad 4y ago
    "And yet, I see you participate in society." Sorry about the quote marks; from memory, so probably not an exact quote.
dredmorbius 4y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32118404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32118404

remram 4y ago

Isn't answering on questions providing free labor to StackOverflow too? Providing way more value to their company? Do you draw a line between answering and reviewing?

wahnfrieden 4y ago
yeah I would like to have a public space to help my peers and am trying to build that in adjacent spaces

pronlover723 4y ago

free labor lol, they're providing a service. For free where free = no money, They give user a way to share with each other, ways to organize events, ways to sell things, ways to send messages with each other, ways to make calls to each other, ways to have video chat with each other, all for free (again free = no money). In return they put ads in your face and to make those ads more relevant they look at whatever data they can gather. I don't like be spied on but gees, they aren't getting free labor. They're paying like crazy. As someone that once at a > $1000 phone bill it's amazing to me I can video chat with friends all over the world via FBs services and pay no direct money to do it and that to keep up with them I can now just post to fb instead of send out a newsletter or write each individual person

wahnfrieden 4y ago
I don't care, there are ways to build public goods services
ipaddr 4y ago
Many sites offer these things for free without the need to track you around the internet. Facebook's business model breaks social expectations of privacy. They make a lot of money because they sell other people your data through ad targeting. Facebook controls the barely tech literate crowd by offering an aol type experience. These services are popular with the masses. No one cares that they give data to facebook so they can be sold more things and leave them poorer. You end up paying facebook no direct money but you have less money and spent when you didn't need to.
- winternett 4y ago
  The only time I fill out pop-up surveys is when I want to enter wildly inaccurate data bout myself. That time back when Facebutt forced everyone to use their government names (as if it was an authentic requirement) I was shocked at how many people caved into entering their full name. Companies are having a field day with all this data collection. I hope they get real karma for the deception.

dredmorbius 4y ago

The extension would likely need some sort of FB proxy in order to decode the provided URL to its canonical source. That is, when copying a FB URL, you'd take the supplied value, feed that to the proxy, get the translated (and presumably canonical OR), and feed that to the clipboard buffer or share dialogue. Needless to say, a fucking PITA.