8 ms·

This comment shouldn't be downvoted. People have just forgotten what a general purpose computer is. We used to take much more pride and spend a lot more effort

This comment shouldn't be downvoted. People have just forgotten what a general purpose computer is. We used to take much more pride and spend a lot more effort making hardware cross compatible with each other. It was never perfect, but more and more these days we seem to be given vendor locked, non-general devices.

dinom 4y ago
I agree. But if one doesn't define a "general purpose computer" as being a piece of hardware, then all kinds of different conclusions can be drawn. If what Amelius pointed out here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32116822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32116822 is true, i.e. the documentation is junk. Then, IMHO, Apple is no longer trying to sell "a good piece of hardware"; because they're not documenting its operation. And, in reality, I find this to be true... what Apple really sells is "an experience". Whether it's a good or bad experience is likely in the eye of the beholder.
- simonh 4y ago
  The Asahi Linux team lead don't seem to agree that this is a fair assessment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28762744#28764136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28762744#28764136
drivers99 4y ago
I had the same question because I’m interested in osdev and would ideally like to be able to boot something from machine language that I created from scratch. Currently targeting Raspberry Pi which is also ARM, but the laptop form factor would be nice.
- _ph_ 4y ago
  Then check out the Asahi Linux project. From my understanding, it consists of two parts. First, kind of a boot loader, which makes it easy to boot any code on your Mac. This they use to run a Linux kernel, customized for the hardware of the Apple Silicon machines. Most of the kernel customizations are already part of the main Linux kernel or in process of being added.
simonh 4y ago
>People have just forgotten what a general purpose computer is. OK, tell me what it is.
least 4y ago
By all accounts, a brand new m1/m2 mac is a general purpose computer. It allows arbitrary execution of code, it can be used generally for multiple purposes. This is contrast to special purpose computers, who were designed specifically for a computational task and cannot perform tasks of "general purpose." A Raspberry Pi, a Vic-20, an Apple II, the framework laptop, and yes, the current generation of Macs all qualify. You're trying to narrow the definition of "general purpose" to mean something else entirely.

dinom 4y ago

I agree. But if one doesn't define a "general purpose computer" as being a piece of hardware, then all kinds of different conclusions can be drawn. If what Amelius pointed out here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32116822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32116822 is true, i.e. the documentation is junk. Then, IMHO, Apple is no longer trying to sell "a good piece of hardware"; because they're not documenting its operation. And, in reality, I find this to be true... what Apple really sells is "an experience". Whether it's a good or bad experience is likely in the eye of the beholder.

simonh 4y ago
The Asahi Linux team lead don't seem to agree that this is a fair assessment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28762744#28764136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28762744#28764136

drivers99 4y ago

I had the same question because I’m interested in osdev and would ideally like to be able to boot something from machine language that I created from scratch. Currently targeting Raspberry Pi which is also ARM, but the laptop form factor would be nice.

_ph_ 4y ago
Then check out the Asahi Linux project. From my understanding, it consists of two parts. First, kind of a boot loader, which makes it easy to boot any code on your Mac. This they use to run a Linux kernel, customized for the hardware of the Apple Silicon machines. Most of the kernel customizations are already part of the main Linux kernel or in process of being added.

simonh 4y ago

>People have just forgotten what a general purpose computer is. OK, tell me what it is.

least 4y ago

By all accounts, a brand new m1/m2 mac is a general purpose computer. It allows arbitrary execution of code, it can be used generally for multiple purposes. This is contrast to special purpose computers, who were designed specifically for a computational task and cannot perform tasks of "general purpose." A Raspberry Pi, a Vic-20, an Apple II, the framework laptop, and yes, the current generation of Macs all qualify. You're trying to narrow the definition of "general purpose" to mean something else entirely.