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The father can do everything except breastfeeding, so there’s no reason (except illness) to divide labour on exactly the thing that evolution built the mother t

by blub 4y ago

The father can do everything except breastfeeding, so there’s no reason (except illness) to divide labour on exactly the thing that evolution built the mother to do.

thfuran 4y ago
Mothers probably don't need sleep, right?
- CrHn3 4y ago
  Breastfeeding and sleep aren’t mutually exclusive.
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    They definitely are for some mothers. It is very difficult for many people to wake multiple times during the night and still get a good night's sleep.
- dham 4y ago
  I mean I'm sure it's tough but it's not forever. Also co-sleeping helps. Never understood why people get up to feed babies.
- blub 4y ago
  There are cots which attach to the parent’s bed and special blouses which allow for easy breastfeeding without undressing. The whole process is as simple as dragging the baby over, taking one breast out and bringing them near to it. The baby will take care of the rest. Mothers do get sleep, including during the day together with the baby. There are solutions out there for many frequent or rare problems. A good midwife and experienced mothers in the family / circle of friends are priceless.
tptacek 4y ago
Who gives a shit how evolution "built the mother"? It also built us to walk the plains and jog slowly after ruminants for hours on end to feed our tribes. In 2022, what the mother probably needs to do is get up in the morning reasonably refreshed and get in to her office.
- blub 4y ago
  The WHO and any local health org worth its salt cares. Parents that want the best for their baby do. The more appropriate question is who wants to ignore the medical consensus and why. Of course some women can’t breastfeed and they deserve support. But downplaying the benefits of breastfeeding because it may hurt the feelings of some mothers is not the way to go. It’s disappointing but not surprising that you’re saying that mothers need to go to work in the US. AFAIK in many parts of Europe they take many months off (often 6-12) to spend time with the baby. For some of them, it’s the only time in their life that they’ll get the chance to do that. Work can wait. Why do mothers need to work in the US in the first 6 months of their baby’s life? Why can’t one of the richest countries in the world pay them to stay at home?
  - tptacek 4y ago
    The rest of the thread discusses, and I think mostly debunks, the notion that breastfeeding is vitally important for infant health. I'm just here to take potshots at appeals to the naturalist fallacy, that if nature "designed" something some way, it's important for us to continue honoring that design. No, it isn't. As for parental leave: why not pay men to stay home? Why the presumption that women must be the ones to sacrifice their careers? Because "breastfeeding"? That's a pitiful justification.
    - blub 4y ago
      Thankfully nobody's likely to be reading HN for advice on breastfeeding, debunked or not. :-) They're going to look at the recommendations of the WHO, their country's equivalent or talk to their doctor or midwife. All of which would recommend breastfeeding, since that's the current scientific consensus. The EU in particular highlights the importance of breastfeeding for at least six months. I'll say this though - breastfeeding can be a complete mystery for new parents and doctors are often clueless about it. A competent midwife which is familiar with the typical issues is priceless. It's good that there's formula available for those cases where the woman can't breastfeed or the baby is having difficulties and the parent's don't know what to do and can't find competent help. In the EU, the parents get a number of months which can be split between them. Fathers in Germany for example take a few months off. Because breastfeeding, because moms often want to spend time with their babies and yes, sadly often also because they earn more.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by blub 4y ago

The father can do everything except breastfeeding, so there’s no reason (except illness) to divide labour on exactly the thing that evolution built the mother to do.

thfuran 4y ago

Mothers probably don't need sleep, right?

CrHn3 4y ago
Breastfeeding and sleep aren’t mutually exclusive.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  They definitely are for some mothers. It is very difficult for many people to wake multiple times during the night and still get a good night's sleep.
dham 4y ago
I mean I'm sure it's tough but it's not forever. Also co-sleeping helps. Never understood why people get up to feed babies.
blub 4y ago
There are cots which attach to the parent’s bed and special blouses which allow for easy breastfeeding without undressing. The whole process is as simple as dragging the baby over, taking one breast out and bringing them near to it. The baby will take care of the rest. Mothers do get sleep, including during the day together with the baby. There are solutions out there for many frequent or rare problems. A good midwife and experienced mothers in the family / circle of friends are priceless.

tptacek 4y ago

Who gives a shit how evolution "built the mother"? It also built us to walk the plains and jog slowly after ruminants for hours on end to feed our tribes. In 2022, what the mother probably needs to do is get up in the morning reasonably refreshed and get in to her office.

blub 4y ago
The WHO and any local health org worth its salt cares. Parents that want the best for their baby do. The more appropriate question is who wants to ignore the medical consensus and why. Of course some women can’t breastfeed and they deserve support. But downplaying the benefits of breastfeeding because it may hurt the feelings of some mothers is not the way to go. It’s disappointing but not surprising that you’re saying that mothers need to go to work in the US. AFAIK in many parts of Europe they take many months off (often 6-12) to spend time with the baby. For some of them, it’s the only time in their life that they’ll get the chance to do that. Work can wait. Why do mothers need to work in the US in the first 6 months of their baby’s life? Why can’t one of the richest countries in the world pay them to stay at home?
- tptacek 4y ago
  The rest of the thread discusses, and I think mostly debunks, the notion that breastfeeding is vitally important for infant health. I'm just here to take potshots at appeals to the naturalist fallacy, that if nature "designed" something some way, it's important for us to continue honoring that design. No, it isn't. As for parental leave: why not pay men to stay home? Why the presumption that women must be the ones to sacrifice their careers? Because "breastfeeding"? That's a pitiful justification.
  - blub 4y ago
    Thankfully nobody's likely to be reading HN for advice on breastfeeding, debunked or not. :-) They're going to look at the recommendations of the WHO, their country's equivalent or talk to their doctor or midwife. All of which would recommend breastfeeding, since that's the current scientific consensus. The EU in particular highlights the importance of breastfeeding for at least six months. I'll say this though - breastfeeding can be a complete mystery for new parents and doctors are often clueless about it. A competent midwife which is familiar with the typical issues is priceless. It's good that there's formula available for those cases where the woman can't breastfeed or the baby is having difficulties and the parent's don't know what to do and can't find competent help. In the EU, the parents get a number of months which can be split between them. Fathers in Germany for example take a few months off. Because breastfeeding, because moms often want to spend time with their babies and yes, sadly often also because they earn more.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]