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There is. Apple does not restrict you from booting into other operations, they actually have even slightly improved the ability to do so over time on the ARM Ma

by _ph_ 4y ago

There is. Apple does not restrict you from booting into other operations, they actually have even slightly improved the ability to do so over time on the ARM Macs. The catch is to get another OS which supports your hardware. With Linux, it actually looks good, the Asahi Linux project (https://asahilinux.org/ https://asahilinux.org/) is making great strides, you can install it on ARM Macs, the biggest drawback currently is, that while there is GUI support, it isn't accellerated yet. But it seems, that even the CPU rendered UIs are faster than the GPU on a Raspberry Pi. GPU support for Asahi Linux is making good progress too, so I expect something not too far into the future.

capableweb 4y ago
Another catch is that you cannot install Linux (at least Asahi Linux) without first booting macOS, opening up a GUI terminal there and installing Asahi via a shellscript downloaded from their website. Also, saying that "lacking GPU support" is the only drawback, is minimizing the issue a bit. Here is the following components that don't currently work with Asahi Linux: - DisplayPort - Thunderbolt - HDMI on the MacBooks - Bluetooth - GPU acceleration - Video codec acceleration - Neural Engine - CPU deep idle - Sleep mode - Camera - Touch Bar
- _ph_ 4y ago
  I am not sure how the method of installation plays a role and I have not said, that lacking GPU support is the only drawback, just the biggest. The rest is work im progress or already working. But to a few of your points: - HDMI: the MacBook Air doesn't have HDMI, seems to work on the Mini or how are they getting a monitor attached. Or they use DisplayPort, what you listed as not working. - GPU accelleration, I mentioned that. Of course you cannot expect Video accelleration without GPU support - Neural engine: well, most other devices don't even have one. - CPU idle certainly will come, run times are already excellent under Linux. - Touch Bar: except for the M2 Pro, there are no devices with a touch bar left, and I expect the touch bar to go away entirely soon.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    > I am not sure how the method of installation plays a role It does, because it means I cannot just install Linux on the machine. I have to have macOS installed and running first, then and only then can I install Linux. It makes the hardware dependent on macOS, even if I just wanna run Linux. Other computers you can have literally nothing on it, and then get Windows or Linux running on it (or macOS even). I didn't make that list myself, it's from the official Asahi website. And I'm not gonna argue against you if each item on the list has a big impact or not. I'm generally a fan of Asahi (and I donate to their efforts each month), I was just putting it out there to show that there are actually a bunch of "drawbacks" (more like missing features) than people in this comment thread is letting on.
    - matthewmacleod 4y ago
      Other computers you can have literally nothing on it, and then get Windows or Linux running on it This is absolutely not the case, of course - it’s just the pre-installed environment you use to install Windows or Linux is called “BIOS” or “UEFI” instead of “macOS”.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - philistine 4y ago
        Exactly. The incapacity to understand what it means to have one company responsible for every component of a computer is incredible.
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  This is incorrect as Asahi Linux can also be installed from macOS Recovery, which is the Apple UEFI equivalent.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Can I install macOS Recovery without installing full macOS? If my memory serves my well, macOS Recovery is a part of full macOS, so to get it, you need a full install. If that's true, you still need a full macOS install in order to install Asahi Linux, in comparison to normal laptop/desktop computers which can have nothing on them, but still allow you to install Windows/Linux/macOS.
    - smaccona 4y ago
      Apple computers come with macOS pre-installed, so technically you don’t have to install anything. It’s not possible, as far as I know, to purchase a Mac without macOS already installed.
      - wrycoder 4y ago
        I’m planning on buying an M2 Air. That leaves my mid 2012 Air running Catalina (poorly). I don’t want to continue running the old Catalina system. Is there a way to install Linux on that bare metal? What’s the best approach - direct install, or use something like QEMU underneath?
        aordano 4y ago
        Typing this from a MacBook Air 2013 running ArchLinux :) You just flash the installer of your favorite distro (don't use ventoy) to a USB and install as usual.
        wrycoder 4y ago
        Do you reformat / partition the drive?
- rowanG077 4y ago
  Bluetooth works now. and GPU acceleration is "close"
varispeed 4y ago
> Apple does not restrict you from booting into other operations While that is important, it's quite superficial given that Apple does not provide documentation for the device.
- _ph_ 4y ago
  Nor do most PC vendors. Which is why Linux on many laptops is still some kind of a challenge. The only reason it most of the times works nevertheless is, that the PC vendors often use known components and the user base is so large, that a lot of reengineering already had happened. But if Linux on Apple Silicon gains any traction, the situation could be quite good.

by _ph_ 4y ago

capableweb 4y ago

Another catch is that you cannot install Linux (at least Asahi Linux) without first booting macOS, opening up a GUI terminal there and installing Asahi via a shellscript downloaded from their website. Also, saying that "lacking GPU support" is the only drawback, is minimizing the issue a bit. Here is the following components that don't currently work with Asahi Linux: - DisplayPort - Thunderbolt - HDMI on the MacBooks - Bluetooth - GPU acceleration - Video codec acceleration - Neural Engine - CPU deep idle - Sleep mode - Camera - Touch Bar

_ph_ 4y ago
I am not sure how the method of installation plays a role and I have not said, that lacking GPU support is the only drawback, just the biggest. The rest is work im progress or already working. But to a few of your points: - HDMI: the MacBook Air doesn't have HDMI, seems to work on the Mini or how are they getting a monitor attached. Or they use DisplayPort, what you listed as not working. - GPU accelleration, I mentioned that. Of course you cannot expect Video accelleration without GPU support - Neural engine: well, most other devices don't even have one. - CPU idle certainly will come, run times are already excellent under Linux. - Touch Bar: except for the M2 Pro, there are no devices with a touch bar left, and I expect the touch bar to go away entirely soon.
- capableweb 4y ago
  > I am not sure how the method of installation plays a role It does, because it means I cannot just install Linux on the machine. I have to have macOS installed and running first, then and only then can I install Linux. It makes the hardware dependent on macOS, even if I just wanna run Linux. Other computers you can have literally nothing on it, and then get Windows or Linux running on it (or macOS even). I didn't make that list myself, it's from the official Asahi website. And I'm not gonna argue against you if each item on the list has a big impact or not. I'm generally a fan of Asahi (and I donate to their efforts each month), I was just putting it out there to show that there are actually a bunch of "drawbacks" (more like missing features) than people in this comment thread is letting on.
  - matthewmacleod 4y ago
    Other computers you can have literally nothing on it, and then get Windows or Linux running on it This is absolutely not the case, of course - it’s just the pre-installed environment you use to install Windows or Linux is called “BIOS” or “UEFI” instead of “macOS”.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - philistine 4y ago
      Exactly. The incapacity to understand what it means to have one company responsible for every component of a computer is incredible.
gjsman-1000 4y ago
This is incorrect as Asahi Linux can also be installed from macOS Recovery, which is the Apple UEFI equivalent.
- capableweb 4y ago
  Can I install macOS Recovery without installing full macOS? If my memory serves my well, macOS Recovery is a part of full macOS, so to get it, you need a full install. If that's true, you still need a full macOS install in order to install Asahi Linux, in comparison to normal laptop/desktop computers which can have nothing on them, but still allow you to install Windows/Linux/macOS.
  - smaccona 4y ago
    Apple computers come with macOS pre-installed, so technically you don’t have to install anything. It’s not possible, as far as I know, to purchase a Mac without macOS already installed.
    - wrycoder 4y ago
      I’m planning on buying an M2 Air. That leaves my mid 2012 Air running Catalina (poorly). I don’t want to continue running the old Catalina system. Is there a way to install Linux on that bare metal? What’s the best approach - direct install, or use something like QEMU underneath?
      - aordano 4y ago
        Typing this from a MacBook Air 2013 running ArchLinux :) You just flash the installer of your favorite distro (don't use ventoy) to a USB and install as usual.
        wrycoder 4y ago
        Do you reformat / partition the drive?
rowanG077 4y ago
Bluetooth works now. and GPU acceleration is "close"

varispeed 4y ago

> Apple does not restrict you from booting into other operations While that is important, it's quite superficial given that Apple does not provide documentation for the device.

_ph_ 4y ago
Nor do most PC vendors. Which is why Linux on many laptops is still some kind of a challenge. The only reason it most of the times works nevertheless is, that the PC vendors often use known components and the user base is so large, that a lot of reengineering already had happened. But if Linux on Apple Silicon gains any traction, the situation could be quite good.