4 ms·

There was a study, which I can't find right now so I'm hoping another person will help me out with the citation, that showed women were less satisfied with stay

There was a study, which I can't find right now so I'm hoping another person will help me out with the citation, that showed women were less satisfied with stay-at-home men than vice versa. Anecdotally, once I fully took on the duties of breadwinner our relationship really transformed into the healthiest and most stable it's ever been. She pursues her creative passions and I get the joy of watching her grow. She does do the cooking but she also loves to cook. And no, the cooking and cleaning is not all she does. Her creative passions are much broader and what she spends the most time doing. I do wonder if some societal trend has completely hijacked our natural inclinations as men and women putting it all behind the veil of "it's all social construct! Dismantle everything!" I think we should allow for people who identify as either men and women but don't want to fit in what works, naturally, for most people to go be their best self and that society making outcasts of those people in the past was the real problem. You want to fuck men and you are a man? Go do you. You want to identify as a woman but you're biologically a man? Chase your bliss. However, going on the warpath to upend everything (and then force your new worldview on others) with postmodernist zeal has really been one of the most corrosively destructive things I've seen occur in my entire time alive and it appears to be emanating almost exclusively from the US.

klipt 4y ago
> Anecdotally, once I fully took on the duties of breadwinner our relationship really transformed into the healthiest and most stable it's ever been. She pursues her creative passions and I get the joy of watching her grow. The problem here is the power imbalance. At least in the US, she has the power to divorce you at any time for no reason and date a different man, and you still have to support her with alimony/child support as if you were still together, but she of course no longer has to do any home making duties for you. It's a terrible deal for the breadwinner (generally the man). If you work a stressful but high paying job, you permanently lose the option to choose a lower stress lower paying job because the family court will assess your earning potential based on the high paying job and expect you to pay her forever based on that.
- yolo3000 4y ago
  Well, it's the same in the Netherlands and probably most places as well. It doesn't matter if the spouse cheated on you, the one who earns most ends up paying alimony. But the second part I don't know, why can't one get the less stressful job after divorce, it's not like you're enslaved, or are you?
  - klipt 4y ago
    You have to pay based on your max earning potential (the more stressful job) so if you take a less stressful, lower paying job you may have no money left to live on at all.
    - yolo3000 4y ago
      How can that work, what if you lose your job. Doesn't make sense
      - klipt 4y ago
        Then you would have a growing debt, they cancel your passport, cancel your driver license, eventually throw you in prison.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  I'm actually pretty sure there are stay-at-home Dads who receive alimony, the law works both ways.
  - klipt 4y ago
    That's why I said > It's a terrible deal for the breadwinner (generally the man) It's a terrible deal for women breadwinners with stay at home husband too, but they're a minority of breadwinners.
- satyrnein 4y ago
  You think the stay-at-home partner has all the power?! Perhaps you have never talked to a woman trapped in an unhappy marriage.
fleddr 4y ago
"There was a study, which I can't find right now so I'm hoping another person will help me out with the citation, that showed women were less satisfied with stay-at-home men than vice versa." There's a million studies that conclude that women almost exclusively select same level or preferably upwards, whilst men have more of a "any love is good love" selection mechanism, to dramatize a little. Both behaviors align 100% with biological incentives. The full-time career woman does not want Joe Average, minimum wage earner that has ample time to take care of kids and the home. The feminist "dream" of this role reversal could be achieved tomorrow as there's millions of men like that. But they're fully ignored. The second half of your comment escalates in various directions. I do agree though, that line of politics is incredible regressive.
- afpx 4y ago
  I was the primary parent for many years, and I regret doing it. The stigma of being a stay-at-home dad is just too extreme. First, it is nigh impossible to find parenting groups that allow men. So, you're stuck parenting solo without community support. Then, my wife would constantly have to defend me to her parents and her group of adamant feminists. They would ask questions implying that my status is low or that I was some sort of deadbeat. I was doing 90% of the housework and parenting. It kind of sucked for many years.
  - fleddr 4y ago
    Thanks for sharing. Yes, the "patriarchy" is female. I switched to a 4 day work week 10 years ago, unrelated to children (we don't have them). On the 5th day I work on my personal projects. To this day I have to "explain" it, even to friends and family. Even though I make plenty in those 4 days and we have everything we need and more. Meanwhile, the vast majority of women here work part-time even before having children. No questions asked. The male purpose is clear, and we should stop pretending otherwise.

klipt 4y ago

> Anecdotally, once I fully took on the duties of breadwinner our relationship really transformed into the healthiest and most stable it's ever been. She pursues her creative passions and I get the joy of watching her grow. The problem here is the power imbalance. At least in the US, she has the power to divorce you at any time for no reason and date a different man, and you still have to support her with alimony/child support as if you were still together, but she of course no longer has to do any home making duties for you. It's a terrible deal for the breadwinner (generally the man). If you work a stressful but high paying job, you permanently lose the option to choose a lower stress lower paying job because the family court will assess your earning potential based on the high paying job and expect you to pay her forever based on that.

yolo3000 4y ago
Well, it's the same in the Netherlands and probably most places as well. It doesn't matter if the spouse cheated on you, the one who earns most ends up paying alimony. But the second part I don't know, why can't one get the less stressful job after divorce, it's not like you're enslaved, or are you?
- klipt 4y ago
  You have to pay based on your max earning potential (the more stressful job) so if you take a less stressful, lower paying job you may have no money left to live on at all.
  - yolo3000 4y ago
    How can that work, what if you lose your job. Doesn't make sense
    - klipt 4y ago
      Then you would have a growing debt, they cancel your passport, cancel your driver license, eventually throw you in prison.
Wowfunhappy 4y ago
I'm actually pretty sure there are stay-at-home Dads who receive alimony, the law works both ways.
- klipt 4y ago
  That's why I said > It's a terrible deal for the breadwinner (generally the man) It's a terrible deal for women breadwinners with stay at home husband too, but they're a minority of breadwinners.
satyrnein 4y ago
You think the stay-at-home partner has all the power?! Perhaps you have never talked to a woman trapped in an unhappy marriage.

fleddr 4y ago

"There was a study, which I can't find right now so I'm hoping another person will help me out with the citation, that showed women were less satisfied with stay-at-home men than vice versa." There's a million studies that conclude that women almost exclusively select same level or preferably upwards, whilst men have more of a "any love is good love" selection mechanism, to dramatize a little. Both behaviors align 100% with biological incentives. The full-time career woman does not want Joe Average, minimum wage earner that has ample time to take care of kids and the home. The feminist "dream" of this role reversal could be achieved tomorrow as there's millions of men like that. But they're fully ignored. The second half of your comment escalates in various directions. I do agree though, that line of politics is incredible regressive.

afpx 4y ago
I was the primary parent for many years, and I regret doing it. The stigma of being a stay-at-home dad is just too extreme. First, it is nigh impossible to find parenting groups that allow men. So, you're stuck parenting solo without community support. Then, my wife would constantly have to defend me to her parents and her group of adamant feminists. They would ask questions implying that my status is low or that I was some sort of deadbeat. I was doing 90% of the housework and parenting. It kind of sucked for many years.
- fleddr 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing. Yes, the "patriarchy" is female. I switched to a 4 day work week 10 years ago, unrelated to children (we don't have them). On the 5th day I work on my personal projects. To this day I have to "explain" it, even to friends and family. Even though I make plenty in those 4 days and we have everything we need and more. Meanwhile, the vast majority of women here work part-time even before having children. No questions asked. The male purpose is clear, and we should stop pretending otherwise.