3 ms·

> It did in the sense that kids these days don’t worry about selling out. It’s a generational change. I mean, I can understand that establishing a "brand" is m

by deng 4y ago

> It did in the sense that kids these days don’t worry about selling out. It’s a generational change. I mean, I can understand that establishing a "brand" is more important nowadays, but it must still be important to carefully curate it and not mindlessly promoting anything that earns you money. When Tony Hawk promoted crypto.com, I immediately regretted any kind of respect I ever had for that man. Does the younger generation really not care at all?

adastra22 4y ago
That’s not what the article is talking about. When I was growing up (mid 90’s) and earlier, ANY commercial success was selling out. Playing your guitar at the local cafe? Awesome. Signing your first album deal? You’re selling out, man. It was a weird remembrance of the punk movement, and maybe counterculture before it, where basically any capitalist interaction was working with The Man and considered selling out.
- TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
  I grew up around then, and definitely noticed the only people who weren't selling out where those who didn't have the opportunity to.
  - toto444 4y ago
    That's probably true but people were reminded that they were losing agency on their creation to businessmen. The creation was losing a bit of its soul. Nowadays most 'creations' are designed to make money from the very beginning. Very few people still create something for the sake of creating something great. If you are aware of some of them please share !
    - dotancohen 4y ago
      Not "art" per se, but SpaceX has a little cottage industry of followers who make terrific content, and successfully monetize it, while staying true to the ideals of producing the content for enthusiasts' sake. Marcus House, Tim Dodd, etc. Of course they cover other content too, and had established products before pivoting heavily towards SpaceX, but they certainly keep the sense of community.
- usrusr 4y ago
  Your cafe/album part makes it sound like a clear binary, but it was an enormous gradient spanning the entirety of pop culture and just about everybody seemed to rely on it for orientation. From the most pretentius "we would never" that was all top obviously more about getting an offer than about the claimed selling out, all the way to stadium rockers struggling to retain whatever the term "authenticity" meant to them or their audience. The 90ies started with R.E.M. freshly signed on Warner instead of I.R.S. and ended with an absurd DAG of labels and sublabels and sub-sub-sub-labels (again, with the whole range from true grassroots independence to being part of one of the global media giants ten indirections deep), shortly before that entire monstrosity was put down by the onslaught of Napster, iTMS and so on.
coldtea 4y ago
>When Tony Hawk promoted crypto.com, I immediately regretted any kind of respect I ever had for that man. Does the younger generation really not care at all? The younger generation follows and idolizes social media stars and "influencers" that sell out 24/7, in the cheapest, corniest (late night tv informercial style) ways possible...
- ConceptJunkie 4y ago
  > social media stars and "influencers" i.e., people who are based entirely on the "selling out" part without having created something to sell out in the first place.
- ghaff 4y ago
  It's complicated but it feels like there is a huge aspect of personal branding/influencer/side hustle/etc. culture that's about making money any way you can and that to disdain it is to be "privileged."
- lapinot 4y ago
  Yeah.. hem tiktok youtube facebook hem instagram snapchat twitch.. This whole thing being discussed in the thread is not some abstract destiny, it's just that the social media lobby, ie the mass advertisement and marketing lobby is crushing everything on it's path since 20 years because they are now tech giants and have data crunching tech. It's not "the spirit of the time" or some other naturalization or whatever, there are active forces behind this (and i absolutely don't mean this in the "evil hidden goverment" way, these forces are fuzzy are multiple, but still, it's a school of thought that recognizes itself).

by deng 4y ago

adastra22 4y ago

That’s not what the article is talking about. When I was growing up (mid 90’s) and earlier, ANY commercial success was selling out. Playing your guitar at the local cafe? Awesome. Signing your first album deal? You’re selling out, man. It was a weird remembrance of the punk movement, and maybe counterculture before it, where basically any capitalist interaction was working with The Man and considered selling out.

TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
I grew up around then, and definitely noticed the only people who weren't selling out where those who didn't have the opportunity to.
- toto444 4y ago
  That's probably true but people were reminded that they were losing agency on their creation to businessmen. The creation was losing a bit of its soul. Nowadays most 'creations' are designed to make money from the very beginning. Very few people still create something for the sake of creating something great. If you are aware of some of them please share !
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    Not "art" per se, but SpaceX has a little cottage industry of followers who make terrific content, and successfully monetize it, while staying true to the ideals of producing the content for enthusiasts' sake. Marcus House, Tim Dodd, etc. Of course they cover other content too, and had established products before pivoting heavily towards SpaceX, but they certainly keep the sense of community.
usrusr 4y ago
Your cafe/album part makes it sound like a clear binary, but it was an enormous gradient spanning the entirety of pop culture and just about everybody seemed to rely on it for orientation. From the most pretentius "we would never" that was all top obviously more about getting an offer than about the claimed selling out, all the way to stadium rockers struggling to retain whatever the term "authenticity" meant to them or their audience. The 90ies started with R.E.M. freshly signed on Warner instead of I.R.S. and ended with an absurd DAG of labels and sublabels and sub-sub-sub-labels (again, with the whole range from true grassroots independence to being part of one of the global media giants ten indirections deep), shortly before that entire monstrosity was put down by the onslaught of Napster, iTMS and so on.

coldtea 4y ago

>When Tony Hawk promoted crypto.com, I immediately regretted any kind of respect I ever had for that man. Does the younger generation really not care at all? The younger generation follows and idolizes social media stars and "influencers" that sell out 24/7, in the cheapest, corniest (late night tv informercial style) ways possible...

ConceptJunkie 4y ago
> social media stars and "influencers" i.e., people who are based entirely on the "selling out" part without having created something to sell out in the first place.
ghaff 4y ago
It's complicated but it feels like there is a huge aspect of personal branding/influencer/side hustle/etc. culture that's about making money any way you can and that to disdain it is to be "privileged."
lapinot 4y ago
Yeah.. hem tiktok youtube facebook hem instagram snapchat twitch.. This whole thing being discussed in the thread is not some abstract destiny, it's just that the social media lobby, ie the mass advertisement and marketing lobby is crushing everything on it's path since 20 years because they are now tech giants and have data crunching tech. It's not "the spirit of the time" or some other naturalization or whatever, there are active forces behind this (and i absolutely don't mean this in the "evil hidden goverment" way, these forces are fuzzy are multiple, but still, it's a school of thought that recognizes itself).