4 ms·

The cops are a system- it comprises both its rules and those who enact them. The quarrel is with the cops.

haswell 4y ago
It’s a system that exists in a society that established that system. One need only look at the differences in police departments across various countries to see that the context in which they exist matters. It’s right to question the rules, but overly simplistic to reduce the problem to “cops”. You’ll need to zoom out a bit more.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > It’s a system that exists in a society that established that system. It's also a system that now resists any efforts by that society to rein it in. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapolis-kroll.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapo... > When Steve Fletcher, a Minneapolis city councilman and frequent Police Department critic, sought to divert money away from hiring officers and toward a newly created office of violence prevention, he said, the police stopped responding as quickly to 911 calls placed by his constituents. “It operates a little bit like a protection racket,” Mr. Fletcher said of the union. > Unions can be so effective at defending their members that cops with a pattern of abuse can be left untouched, with fatal consequences. In Chicago, after the killing of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald by officer Jason Van Dyke, it emerged that Mr. Van Dyke had been the subject of multiple complaints already. But a “code of silence” about misconduct was effectively “baked into” the labor agreements between police unions and the city, according to a report conducted by task force. > When liberal politicians do try to advance reform proposals, union officials have resorted to highly provocative rhetoric and hard-boiled campaign tactics to lash out at them. This past week, the head of the sergeants’ union in New York posted a police report on Twitter revealing personal information about the daughter of Mr. de Blasio, who had been arrested during a protest.
  - haswell 4y ago
    I am not arguing that the organization doesn't have emergent/systemic problems - that part is clear. But I still don't think any conversation that simplifies this problem down to "cops" alone can really get anywhere. If you look at why they are insulating themselves, the climate in which these "us vs. them dynamics" are unfolding seems to be at the center of this, and the cops are just another tribe in the culture wars at this point. Albeit a tribe that is authorized to carry guns, and the power dynamic is obviously a big problem. That just makes this issue more complex, not less.

It’s a system that exists in a society that established that system. One need only look at the differences in police departments across various countries to see that the context in which they exist matters. It’s right to question the rules, but overly simplistic to reduce the problem to “cops”. You’ll need to zoom out a bit more.

ceejayoz 4y ago
> It’s a system that exists in a society that established that system. It's also a system that now resists any efforts by that society to rein it in. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapolis-kroll.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapo... > When Steve Fletcher, a Minneapolis city councilman and frequent Police Department critic, sought to divert money away from hiring officers and toward a newly created office of violence prevention, he said, the police stopped responding as quickly to 911 calls placed by his constituents. “It operates a little bit like a protection racket,” Mr. Fletcher said of the union. > Unions can be so effective at defending their members that cops with a pattern of abuse can be left untouched, with fatal consequences. In Chicago, after the killing of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald by officer Jason Van Dyke, it emerged that Mr. Van Dyke had been the subject of multiple complaints already. But a “code of silence” about misconduct was effectively “baked into” the labor agreements between police unions and the city, according to a report conducted by task force. > When liberal politicians do try to advance reform proposals, union officials have resorted to highly provocative rhetoric and hard-boiled campaign tactics to lash out at them. This past week, the head of the sergeants’ union in New York posted a police report on Twitter revealing personal information about the daughter of Mr. de Blasio, who had been arrested during a protest.
- haswell 4y ago
  I am not arguing that the organization doesn't have emergent/systemic problems - that part is clear. But I still don't think any conversation that simplifies this problem down to "cops" alone can really get anywhere. If you look at why they are insulating themselves, the climate in which these "us vs. them dynamics" are unfolding seems to be at the center of this, and the cops are just another tribe in the culture wars at this point. Albeit a tribe that is authorized to carry guns, and the power dynamic is obviously a big problem. That just makes this issue more complex, not less.