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Meanwhile, farmers in Netherlands are no longer allowed to grow food. If there ever was a reason to have the right to own arms, and to overthrow the government

Meanwhile, farmers in Netherlands are no longer allowed to grow food. If there ever was a reason to have the right to own arms, and to overthrow the government, I think losing the right to grow food is a valid justification for a "self-coup". But, if you take a very big view of things, both the religious and science fanatics believe the world is ending. They have different reasons, of course. Nonetheless, the world is not ending.

delecti 4y ago
They can still grow food, there are just emission standards for tractors, which importantly will take most of a decade to go into effect. It's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the situation to say they're no longer allowed to grow food. Obviously the world has not ended yet, but that doesn't mean all of history was equally uneventful or pleasant to live through. I'm not saying the world is going to end in the next decade, I'm just saying that it stands to be "eventful", and quite likely not in a good way.
- tootallgavin 4y ago
  If they can still grow food, why are they protesting? Seems like a lot of time to waste not working on the farm. But, honestly, I haven't really found a source of news that wasn't just calling the farmers terrible names. Why do you think the farmers are being called terrible names by news sources? Maybe its because they are not growing food. Its becoming a circle now. Which decades were "uneventful"?
  - delecti 4y ago
    I don't know why you want me to be the one to defend the protests of farmers whose positions I clearly disagree with. I wouldn't be a very effective advocate for their position. And while I didn't see any articles calling them names, "short sighted" seems pretty fair given the goals of the emission standards. I feel pretty comfortable saying the 1990s were less eventful in the US than the 1930s, not that I think you're responding in good faith.
    - tootallgavin 4y ago
      I didn't ask you to defend them. I asked why they would be protesting. I, too, would be a bad advocate for them as well. I am neither a Netherlander nor a farmer. I just eat and don't wonder where the food comes from, nor do I want to. I just want the food to be at the store when I am ready to buy it. I agree the 90s were great, but I'll admit I was born in '92. So I might be biased. I don't know what you mean by "good faith". I don't think the farmers are the short sighted ones here. They are farmers. They might be little bit interested in the long view, as hear it takes many months to grow food, and years to raise livestock. Again, I don't know, I just go to the grocery store. I hope in 10 years, whatever the farmers are protesting about, the Netherlanders can enjoy a burger [1][2], just like I do. [1]"The ruling coalition has earmarked an extra 24.3 billion euros ($25.6bn) to finance changes that will likely make many farmers drastically reduce their number of livestock or get rid of them altogether." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/22/thousands-of-dutch-farmers-protest-against-emissions-targets https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/22/thousands-of-dutch-... [2]"According to government estimates, this could lead to the shutting down of about 30 per cent of livestock farms." https://thewest.com.au/politics/dutch-farmers-block-roads-ports-in-demos-c-7404365 https://thewest.com.au/politics/dutch-farmers-block-roads-po...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- bitbang 4y ago
  Has nothing to do with tractor emissions. They are being forced to forgo using nitrogen based fertilizer for crops, and cull their cattle herds to reduce ammonia. Both are going to severely cut into their income for an industry with very thin margins, and put a lot of them out of business. Their government even conceded that fact very early on and still pushed it through. The farmers are pissed and rightly so.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  > there are just emission standards for tractors That's not what it's about. Farmers in NL are protesting because the government wants to slash NITROGEN emissions; which are associated with synthetic fertilisers and composting. It has nothing to do with CO2 emissions on tractors...

delecti 4y ago

They can still grow food, there are just emission standards for tractors, which importantly will take most of a decade to go into effect. It's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the situation to say they're no longer allowed to grow food. Obviously the world has not ended yet, but that doesn't mean all of history was equally uneventful or pleasant to live through. I'm not saying the world is going to end in the next decade, I'm just saying that it stands to be "eventful", and quite likely not in a good way.

tootallgavin 4y ago
If they can still grow food, why are they protesting? Seems like a lot of time to waste not working on the farm. But, honestly, I haven't really found a source of news that wasn't just calling the farmers terrible names. Why do you think the farmers are being called terrible names by news sources? Maybe its because they are not growing food. Its becoming a circle now. Which decades were "uneventful"?
- delecti 4y ago
  I don't know why you want me to be the one to defend the protests of farmers whose positions I clearly disagree with. I wouldn't be a very effective advocate for their position. And while I didn't see any articles calling them names, "short sighted" seems pretty fair given the goals of the emission standards. I feel pretty comfortable saying the 1990s were less eventful in the US than the 1930s, not that I think you're responding in good faith.
  - tootallgavin 4y ago
    I didn't ask you to defend them. I asked why they would be protesting. I, too, would be a bad advocate for them as well. I am neither a Netherlander nor a farmer. I just eat and don't wonder where the food comes from, nor do I want to. I just want the food to be at the store when I am ready to buy it. I agree the 90s were great, but I'll admit I was born in '92. So I might be biased. I don't know what you mean by "good faith". I don't think the farmers are the short sighted ones here. They are farmers. They might be little bit interested in the long view, as hear it takes many months to grow food, and years to raise livestock. Again, I don't know, I just go to the grocery store. I hope in 10 years, whatever the farmers are protesting about, the Netherlanders can enjoy a burger [1][2], just like I do. [1]"The ruling coalition has earmarked an extra 24.3 billion euros ($25.6bn) to finance changes that will likely make many farmers drastically reduce their number of livestock or get rid of them altogether." https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/22/thousands-of-dutch-farmers-protest-against-emissions-targets https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/22/thousands-of-dutch-... [2]"According to government estimates, this could lead to the shutting down of about 30 per cent of livestock farms." https://thewest.com.au/politics/dutch-farmers-block-roads-ports-in-demos-c-7404365 https://thewest.com.au/politics/dutch-farmers-block-roads-po...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
bitbang 4y ago
Has nothing to do with tractor emissions. They are being forced to forgo using nitrogen based fertilizer for crops, and cull their cattle herds to reduce ammonia. Both are going to severely cut into their income for an industry with very thin margins, and put a lot of them out of business. Their government even conceded that fact very early on and still pushed it through. The farmers are pissed and rightly so.
Mikeb85 4y ago
> there are just emission standards for tractors That's not what it's about. Farmers in NL are protesting because the government wants to slash NITROGEN emissions; which are associated with synthetic fertilisers and composting. It has nothing to do with CO2 emissions on tractors...