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Is there any way that you can quantify that? Please remember you're on hackernews, not reddit.

by abletonlive 4y ago

roflyear 4y ago
Do you say the same thing to people in real life?
- 59125throwaya 4y ago
  I have people say things like this to me all the time. My standard response at the moment is something along the lines of "If the house is burning down and water is not flowing from the fire hydrant, you don't stop to measure the water pressue". The assertion that "you cannot improve something if you cannot measure it" IMHO promotes a lot of unproductive activity.
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    The actual W. Edwards Demming quote is "It is wrong to suppose that if you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it – a costly myth.” https://deming.org/myth-if-you-cant-measure-it-you-cant-manage-it/ https://deming.org/myth-if-you-cant-measure-it-you-cant-mana...
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Most people around me tell me we are heading towards disaster. I asked random people om the street with a microphone. They say the same thing. There are huge things that have now been set in motion, they cannot be easilly stopped
delecti 4y ago
The US started the 2021 with an attempted self-coup, its first ever failure to peacefully transfer power, and has so far done little to punish the organizers of it (though that's subject to change); a constitutional crisis is on the horizon depending on the outcome of a case the SCOTUS has agreed to hear; the Southwest US is facing record drought, including the near depletion of a watershed depended upon by millions of people; the Russian invasion of Ukraine is just a few wrong moves away from nuclear conflict; there's an ongoing real estate crisis brewing in China; and we're more than 2 years into a global pandemic with no sign of it truly abating, just people mostly fed up with acknowledging it. I'm not quite as pessimistic as some about the possibility of a looming recession, but add that to the pile and things just get even more concerning. "Eventful" is hard to objectively quantify, but subjectively I certainly think that qualifies.
- tootallgavin 4y ago
  Meanwhile, farmers in Netherlands are no longer allowed to grow food. If there ever was a reason to have the right to own arms, and to overthrow the government, I think losing the right to grow food is a valid justification for a "self-coup". But, if you take a very big view of things, both the religious and science fanatics believe the world is ending. They have different reasons, of course. Nonetheless, the world is not ending.
  - delecti 4y ago
    They can still grow food, there are just emission standards for tractors, which importantly will take most of a decade to go into effect. It's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the situation to say they're no longer allowed to grow food. Obviously the world has not ended yet, but that doesn't mean all of history was equally uneventful or pleasant to live through. I'm not saying the world is going to end in the next decade, I'm just saying that it stands to be "eventful", and quite likely not in a good way.
    - tootallgavin 4y ago
      If they can still grow food, why are they protesting? Seems like a lot of time to waste not working on the farm. But, honestly, I haven't really found a source of news that wasn't just calling the farmers terrible names. Why do you think the farmers are being called terrible names by news sources? Maybe its because they are not growing food. Its becoming a circle now. Which decades were "uneventful"?
      - delecti 4y ago
        I don't know why you want me to be the one to defend the protests of farmers whose positions I clearly disagree with. I wouldn't be a very effective advocate for their position. And while I didn't see any articles calling them names, "short sighted" seems pretty fair given the goals of the emission standards. I feel pretty comfortable saying the 1990s were less eventful in the US than the 1930s, not that I think you're responding in good faith.

Is there any way that you can quantify that? Please remember you're on hackernews, not reddit.

roflyear 4y ago

Do you say the same thing to people in real life?

59125throwaya 4y ago
I have people say things like this to me all the time. My standard response at the moment is something along the lines of "If the house is burning down and water is not flowing from the fire hydrant, you don't stop to measure the water pressue". The assertion that "you cannot improve something if you cannot measure it" IMHO promotes a lot of unproductive activity.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  The actual W. Edwards Demming quote is "It is wrong to suppose that if you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it – a costly myth.” https://deming.org/myth-if-you-cant-measure-it-you-cant-manage-it/ https://deming.org/myth-if-you-cant-measure-it-you-cant-mana...
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
Most people around me tell me we are heading towards disaster. I asked random people om the street with a microphone. They say the same thing. There are huge things that have now been set in motion, they cannot be easilly stopped

delecti 4y ago

The US started the 2021 with an attempted self-coup, its first ever failure to peacefully transfer power, and has so far done little to punish the organizers of it (though that's subject to change); a constitutional crisis is on the horizon depending on the outcome of a case the SCOTUS has agreed to hear; the Southwest US is facing record drought, including the near depletion of a watershed depended upon by millions of people; the Russian invasion of Ukraine is just a few wrong moves away from nuclear conflict; there's an ongoing real estate crisis brewing in China; and we're more than 2 years into a global pandemic with no sign of it truly abating, just people mostly fed up with acknowledging it. I'm not quite as pessimistic as some about the possibility of a looming recession, but add that to the pile and things just get even more concerning. "Eventful" is hard to objectively quantify, but subjectively I certainly think that qualifies.

tootallgavin 4y ago
Meanwhile, farmers in Netherlands are no longer allowed to grow food. If there ever was a reason to have the right to own arms, and to overthrow the government, I think losing the right to grow food is a valid justification for a "self-coup". But, if you take a very big view of things, both the religious and science fanatics believe the world is ending. They have different reasons, of course. Nonetheless, the world is not ending.
- delecti 4y ago
  They can still grow food, there are just emission standards for tractors, which importantly will take most of a decade to go into effect. It's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the situation to say they're no longer allowed to grow food. Obviously the world has not ended yet, but that doesn't mean all of history was equally uneventful or pleasant to live through. I'm not saying the world is going to end in the next decade, I'm just saying that it stands to be "eventful", and quite likely not in a good way.
  - tootallgavin 4y ago
    If they can still grow food, why are they protesting? Seems like a lot of time to waste not working on the farm. But, honestly, I haven't really found a source of news that wasn't just calling the farmers terrible names. Why do you think the farmers are being called terrible names by news sources? Maybe its because they are not growing food. Its becoming a circle now. Which decades were "uneventful"?
    - delecti 4y ago
      I don't know why you want me to be the one to defend the protests of farmers whose positions I clearly disagree with. I wouldn't be a very effective advocate for their position. And while I didn't see any articles calling them names, "short sighted" seems pretty fair given the goals of the emission standards. I feel pretty comfortable saying the 1990s were less eventful in the US than the 1930s, not that I think you're responding in good faith.