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Academia is running out of ways to convince people in that trap. Evolve already. I believe academia as we know it, is in stiff decline and the problems in CS ar

Academia is running out of ways to convince people in that trap. Evolve already. I believe academia as we know it, is in stiff decline and the problems in CS are exarcerbated because of the faster reality of software. Any degree, by the time you have it, might be deprecated or eroded to the point is pointless. If academia doesn't accelerate the pace between education/application, only wealthy people that can afford a lifestyle without income will seek them for entertainment and that's not sustainable to keep a society educated. The value proposition is just not viable. Education has to go the tutorial way or it will continue to decline.

alistairSH 4y ago
Any degree, by the time you have it, might be deprecated or eroded to the point is pointless. In what way is a Masters in Comp Sci going to be deprecated or pointless in the 1-2 years it takes to earn it?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sirmoveon 4y ago
  Assume quantum computers become mainstream or any other technological evolution? crazy to imagine I know, but that has been the tendency.
  - ChrisLomont 4y ago
    The tendency for a good 50 years is a Master's degree will return a significantly higher expected lifetime of earnings.
    - sirmoveon 4y ago
      You make it into any exclusive club in society and you will also enjoy more benefits than the average person in society.
      - cinntaile 4y ago
        So... It's not declining?
        astrange 4y ago
        If it's positional, it will decline as soon as more people try doing it.
      - Hermitian909 4y ago
        In CS, a lot of the knowledge that is very valuable today was discovered years ago and is taught well in Master's programs. As a concrete example, I know some great database developers making >1 million a year because of their expertise. They tell me the vast majority of knowledge the apply at work was discovered in the 80s. They're up to date on newer stuff, but it's just not what gets used. Could that all be invalidated by some new hype technology? Possibly, but even then it would be decades before these older systems are ripped out. I think you're imagining a much more rapid change in technology than usually happens. Heck, I knew someone who's masters was focused on vacuum tubes and graduated the year the semi-conductor was invented. This was one of the more rapid seismic technical shifts in history and it still allowed him to have a long lucrative career with legacy systems. I wouldn't worry about CS knowledge being outdated anytime soon.
        sirmoveon 4y ago
        Academia will always try to teach the best way around a problem. So, you won't see academia, in an updated program, trying to teach these old ways, eventhough there's still going to be a market for legacy technology. They will usually be highly profitable for that same reason.
  - astrange 4y ago
    Quantum computers don't obsolete CS. They're a kind of coprocessor like GPUs and can't do most tasks faster than classical computers (or, actually, at all). I did specialize in "AI" in undergrad a year before deep learning was discovered and so most of what I learned about genetic algorithms/K-means/MCMC turns out to be kind of useless, but oh well.
    - kaba0 4y ago
      Deep learning was discovered decades before that (depending on when you graduated). It just wasn’t feasible with the hardware at time.
      - astrange 4y ago
        Can't say my professor thought much of it at the time. I did have to actually learn statistics though, which should put me at an advantage over ML engineers if I get back into it…
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    Quantum computers still need programming. They still need to interface other hardware. Etc.
aiisjustanif 4y ago
> Academia is running out of ways to convince people in that trap. Evolve already. I believe academia as we know it, is in stiff decline and the problems in CS are exarcerbated because of the faster reality of software. That’s just CS you are talking about, getting into an emerging field that is very important like Material Informatics would be veeeery hard without an academic setting. Even with CS… honesty I still disagree that academia doesn’t have a purpose or value. Just reading a good research papers recently, one of my favorite recent topics being new ways to discover spy cameras using smartphones. Also some of our greatest minds have received a lot of benefits from an academic environments. I understand bachelor degrees from a lot of places are overpriced and I agree that those seem like a trap and the value might be questionable. > Any degree, by the time you have it, might be deprecated or eroded to the point is pointless. My degree cost me out of pocket about ~$5k for my tuition. I stayed in state and my state had a program that paid for tuition if you made above 2.3 GPA in high school. That gave me new friends, sports clubs to join, and understanding of subjects early on that I still use today like psychology and finance. Not to mention my CS degree has paid me back in dividends and I still use knowledge from it today. I have maaany friends in the same boat as me. > Education has to go the tutorial way or it will continue to decline. Sounds like a version of tutorial hell potentially but on the job training has its place. AI, ML, game theory, cryptography, quantum computing, probabilistic methods, the list goes on for sincere that would take a significant amount of dedication to match the amount of understanding that a rigorous course with problem sets can give you in self study.
- sirmoveon 4y ago
  > Even with CS… honesty I still disagree that academia doesn’t have a purpose or value I said their model is not viable and they need to evolve. Academia and education has a lot of value. > Just reading a good research papers recently, one of my favorite recent topics being new ways to discover spy cameras using smartphones That research paper probably started by the author searching on google and finding a conspicuous mind showing how they were able to use their phones to spot IR lights. > Also some of our greatest minds have received a lot of benefits from an academic environments I agree, we need a central resource of our greatest minds and that's why I hope academia finds a way to evolve, because widespread education is doomed if they don't. Important to note, some of our greatest minds are autodidacts. > My degree cost me out of pocket about ~$5k for my tuition Most people don't even know how they are going to pay for the next rent or meal. They should still be able to access knowledge and education. > Sounds like a version of tutorial hell potentially Any subject as complicated as it might seem, to a devoted person digging information online they can learn it. Academia is not different in that aspect either, they usually just provide a direct link to the information and students have to learn it on their own.
MattPalmer1086 4y ago
I think you're missing the distinction between education and training. On my Master's InfoSec degree, several students complained that the tech we were studying was really old. The professor simply responded that this is education, not training. You are expected to learn how to analyse the security of systems in general. The specific tech used is just an example.

alistairSH 4y ago

Any degree, by the time you have it, might be deprecated or eroded to the point is pointless. In what way is a Masters in Comp Sci going to be deprecated or pointless in the 1-2 years it takes to earn it?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sirmoveon 4y ago
Assume quantum computers become mainstream or any other technological evolution? crazy to imagine I know, but that has been the tendency.
- ChrisLomont 4y ago
  The tendency for a good 50 years is a Master's degree will return a significantly higher expected lifetime of earnings.
  - sirmoveon 4y ago
    You make it into any exclusive club in society and you will also enjoy more benefits than the average person in society.
    - cinntaile 4y ago
      So... It's not declining?
      - astrange 4y ago
        If it's positional, it will decline as soon as more people try doing it.
    - Hermitian909 4y ago
      In CS, a lot of the knowledge that is very valuable today was discovered years ago and is taught well in Master's programs. As a concrete example, I know some great database developers making >1 million a year because of their expertise. They tell me the vast majority of knowledge the apply at work was discovered in the 80s. They're up to date on newer stuff, but it's just not what gets used. Could that all be invalidated by some new hype technology? Possibly, but even then it would be decades before these older systems are ripped out. I think you're imagining a much more rapid change in technology than usually happens. Heck, I knew someone who's masters was focused on vacuum tubes and graduated the year the semi-conductor was invented. This was one of the more rapid seismic technical shifts in history and it still allowed him to have a long lucrative career with legacy systems. I wouldn't worry about CS knowledge being outdated anytime soon.
      - sirmoveon 4y ago
        Academia will always try to teach the best way around a problem. So, you won't see academia, in an updated program, trying to teach these old ways, eventhough there's still going to be a market for legacy technology. They will usually be highly profitable for that same reason.
- astrange 4y ago
  Quantum computers don't obsolete CS. They're a kind of coprocessor like GPUs and can't do most tasks faster than classical computers (or, actually, at all). I did specialize in "AI" in undergrad a year before deep learning was discovered and so most of what I learned about genetic algorithms/K-means/MCMC turns out to be kind of useless, but oh well.
  - kaba0 4y ago
    Deep learning was discovered decades before that (depending on when you graduated). It just wasn’t feasible with the hardware at time.
    - astrange 4y ago
      Can't say my professor thought much of it at the time. I did have to actually learn statistics though, which should put me at an advantage over ML engineers if I get back into it…
- alistairSH 4y ago
  Quantum computers still need programming. They still need to interface other hardware. Etc.

aiisjustanif 4y ago

> Academia is running out of ways to convince people in that trap. Evolve already. I believe academia as we know it, is in stiff decline and the problems in CS are exarcerbated because of the faster reality of software. That’s just CS you are talking about, getting into an emerging field that is very important like Material Informatics would be veeeery hard without an academic setting. Even with CS… honesty I still disagree that academia doesn’t have a purpose or value. Just reading a good research papers recently, one of my favorite recent topics being new ways to discover spy cameras using smartphones. Also some of our greatest minds have received a lot of benefits from an academic environments. I understand bachelor degrees from a lot of places are overpriced and I agree that those seem like a trap and the value might be questionable. > Any degree, by the time you have it, might be deprecated or eroded to the point is pointless. My degree cost me out of pocket about ~$5k for my tuition. I stayed in state and my state had a program that paid for tuition if you made above 2.3 GPA in high school. That gave me new friends, sports clubs to join, and understanding of subjects early on that I still use today like psychology and finance. Not to mention my CS degree has paid me back in dividends and I still use knowledge from it today. I have maaany friends in the same boat as me. > Education has to go the tutorial way or it will continue to decline. Sounds like a version of tutorial hell potentially but on the job training has its place. AI, ML, game theory, cryptography, quantum computing, probabilistic methods, the list goes on for sincere that would take a significant amount of dedication to match the amount of understanding that a rigorous course with problem sets can give you in self study.

sirmoveon 4y ago
> Even with CS… honesty I still disagree that academia doesn’t have a purpose or value I said their model is not viable and they need to evolve. Academia and education has a lot of value. > Just reading a good research papers recently, one of my favorite recent topics being new ways to discover spy cameras using smartphones That research paper probably started by the author searching on google and finding a conspicuous mind showing how they were able to use their phones to spot IR lights. > Also some of our greatest minds have received a lot of benefits from an academic environments I agree, we need a central resource of our greatest minds and that's why I hope academia finds a way to evolve, because widespread education is doomed if they don't. Important to note, some of our greatest minds are autodidacts. > My degree cost me out of pocket about ~$5k for my tuition Most people don't even know how they are going to pay for the next rent or meal. They should still be able to access knowledge and education. > Sounds like a version of tutorial hell potentially Any subject as complicated as it might seem, to a devoted person digging information online they can learn it. Academia is not different in that aspect either, they usually just provide a direct link to the information and students have to learn it on their own.

MattPalmer1086 4y ago

I think you're missing the distinction between education and training. On my Master's InfoSec degree, several students complained that the tech we were studying was really old. The professor simply responded that this is education, not training. You are expected to learn how to analyse the security of systems in general. The specific tech used is just an example.