7 ms·

> One plaintiff, Bianca DeLoach, described being swarmed by police with their guns drawn at a gas station in March 2021 while her children watched from inside t

> One plaintiff, Bianca DeLoach, described being swarmed by police with their guns drawn at a gas station in March 2021 while her children watched from inside the rental she’d paid for. > When he opened the door at least 4 officers had guns pointed at him. > Darnay Taper spent two nights in jail last year after being pulled over in March 2021 by eight police cars while during a Hertz rental and held at gunpoint, according to the complaint. Why are guns such a reflex for cops in scenarios that clearly do not warrant them? Can't we find some better cops?

metadat 4y ago
Historically they haven't suffered much negative consequences when they shoot and kill suspects. And they have no personal liability.
sebastien_b 4y ago
>Can't we find some better cops? I feel like cops in the U.S. are just bitter Army rejects that didn’t make the cut due to their overly unhinged behaviour.
- Clubber 4y ago
  They're trained to be afraid by watching videos of cops getting shot, then they're trained to react instinctively at a perceived threat.
  - birdyrooster 4y ago
    Overzealous and primed for violence
  - sebastien_b 4y ago
    So, trained killing machines.
  - beepbeepcabbage 4y ago
    so we give a bunch of paranoid scaredy boys guns and authority - nothing bad will happen I bet
    - powerhour 4y ago
      And permission to do almost anything they want to almost anyone. (Well, guaranteed forgiveness, close enough).
- sebastien_b 4y ago
  I see I’ve hit a nerve there - helps to confirm my suspicions.
cmeacham98 4y ago
Police in the US (broadly speaking, of course there is variance from department to department) are trained this way. Here's an article about a particularly controversial training program: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/police-training-warrior-mindset-killology/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/police-trai...
happyopossum 4y ago
Largely because officers don't know what situations will warrant them. and over 2,500 cops are assaulted with firearms, with 250+ of those resulting in the cop being shot each year in the US, and this often happens during routine traffic stops. [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1745-9133.12507 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1745-9133.12... [2] https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/dallas/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-statistics-for-law-enforcement-officers-assaulted-and-killed-in-the-line-of-duty https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/dallas/news/pre...
- valleyer 4y ago
  This is a good point that I thought about but clearly don't appreciate enough. Thanks for the stats.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  But in the case with the lady with 4 kids? Sounds a bit overblown for the situation indeed. But here in Europe cops rarely even draw their guns (and in some countries don't even carry them)
  - powerhour 4y ago
    Isn't it crazy they couldn't just follow her until she stopped and got out of her rental and then assess the risk of contact? We should probably change our police hiring and training processes.
    - phendrenad2 4y ago
      Unless they can assess the situation without being observed, that could end up worse. If it's a carjacking, it could lead to dead hostages. They're trained to move fast once visible.
- pb7 4y ago
  Police isn't even in the top 20 most dangerous jobs. Crossing guards get killed more per capita. Crossing guards.
lgats 4y ago
I suspect if the officer believes the vehicle to be stolen, it's likely to be a dangerous scenario
- more_corn 4y ago
  That’s why what Hertz is doing is so dangerous. Every false report is a life threatening situation. Their own lax inventory controls are the problem and they’re putting their customers’ lives at risk. Don’t ever rent from them.
wl 4y ago
Grand theft auto is a felony. Drawn guns is standard procedure for “felony stops.” Your quarrel in this case is with the training, not the cops.
- witheld 4y ago
  The cops are a system- it comprises both its rules and those who enact them. The quarrel is with the cops.
  - haswell 4y ago
    It’s a system that exists in a society that established that system. One need only look at the differences in police departments across various countries to see that the context in which they exist matters. It’s right to question the rules, but overly simplistic to reduce the problem to “cops”. You’ll need to zoom out a bit more.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      > It’s a system that exists in a society that established that system. It's also a system that now resists any efforts by that society to rein it in. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapolis-kroll.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapo... > When Steve Fletcher, a Minneapolis city councilman and frequent Police Department critic, sought to divert money away from hiring officers and toward a newly created office of violence prevention, he said, the police stopped responding as quickly to 911 calls placed by his constituents. “It operates a little bit like a protection racket,” Mr. Fletcher said of the union. > Unions can be so effective at defending their members that cops with a pattern of abuse can be left untouched, with fatal consequences. In Chicago, after the killing of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald by officer Jason Van Dyke, it emerged that Mr. Van Dyke had been the subject of multiple complaints already. But a “code of silence” about misconduct was effectively “baked into” the labor agreements between police unions and the city, according to a report conducted by task force. > When liberal politicians do try to advance reform proposals, union officials have resorted to highly provocative rhetoric and hard-boiled campaign tactics to lash out at them. This past week, the head of the sergeants’ union in New York posted a police report on Twitter revealing personal information about the daughter of Mr. de Blasio, who had been arrested during a protest.

metadat 4y ago

Historically they haven't suffered much negative consequences when they shoot and kill suspects. And they have no personal liability.

sebastien_b 4y ago

>Can't we find some better cops? I feel like cops in the U.S. are just bitter Army rejects that didn’t make the cut due to their overly unhinged behaviour.

Clubber 4y ago
They're trained to be afraid by watching videos of cops getting shot, then they're trained to react instinctively at a perceived threat.
- birdyrooster 4y ago
  Overzealous and primed for violence
- sebastien_b 4y ago
  So, trained killing machines.
- beepbeepcabbage 4y ago
  so we give a bunch of paranoid scaredy boys guns and authority - nothing bad will happen I bet
  - powerhour 4y ago
    And permission to do almost anything they want to almost anyone. (Well, guaranteed forgiveness, close enough).
sebastien_b 4y ago
I see I’ve hit a nerve there - helps to confirm my suspicions.

cmeacham98 4y ago

Police in the US (broadly speaking, of course there is variance from department to department) are trained this way. Here's an article about a particularly controversial training program: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/police-training-warrior-mindset-killology/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/11/police-trai...

happyopossum 4y ago

Largely because officers don't know what situations will warrant them. and over 2,500 cops are assaulted with firearms, with 250+ of those resulting in the cop being shot each year in the US, and this often happens during routine traffic stops. [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1745-9133.12507 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1745-9133.12... [2] https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/dallas/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-statistics-for-law-enforcement-officers-assaulted-and-killed-in-the-line-of-duty https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/dallas/news/pre...

valleyer 4y ago
This is a good point that I thought about but clearly don't appreciate enough. Thanks for the stats.
GekkePrutser 4y ago
But in the case with the lady with 4 kids? Sounds a bit overblown for the situation indeed. But here in Europe cops rarely even draw their guns (and in some countries don't even carry them)
- powerhour 4y ago
  Isn't it crazy they couldn't just follow her until she stopped and got out of her rental and then assess the risk of contact? We should probably change our police hiring and training processes.
  - phendrenad2 4y ago
    Unless they can assess the situation without being observed, that could end up worse. If it's a carjacking, it could lead to dead hostages. They're trained to move fast once visible.
pb7 4y ago
Police isn't even in the top 20 most dangerous jobs. Crossing guards get killed more per capita. Crossing guards.

lgats 4y ago

I suspect if the officer believes the vehicle to be stolen, it's likely to be a dangerous scenario

more_corn 4y ago
That’s why what Hertz is doing is so dangerous. Every false report is a life threatening situation. Their own lax inventory controls are the problem and they’re putting their customers’ lives at risk. Don’t ever rent from them.

wl 4y ago

Grand theft auto is a felony. Drawn guns is standard procedure for “felony stops.” Your quarrel in this case is with the training, not the cops.

witheld 4y ago
The cops are a system- it comprises both its rules and those who enact them. The quarrel is with the cops.
- haswell 4y ago
  It’s a system that exists in a society that established that system. One need only look at the differences in police departments across various countries to see that the context in which they exist matters. It’s right to question the rules, but overly simplistic to reduce the problem to “cops”. You’ll need to zoom out a bit more.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    > It’s a system that exists in a society that established that system. It's also a system that now resists any efforts by that society to rein it in. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapolis-kroll.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapo... > When Steve Fletcher, a Minneapolis city councilman and frequent Police Department critic, sought to divert money away from hiring officers and toward a newly created office of violence prevention, he said, the police stopped responding as quickly to 911 calls placed by his constituents. “It operates a little bit like a protection racket,” Mr. Fletcher said of the union. > Unions can be so effective at defending their members that cops with a pattern of abuse can be left untouched, with fatal consequences. In Chicago, after the killing of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald by officer Jason Van Dyke, it emerged that Mr. Van Dyke had been the subject of multiple complaints already. But a “code of silence” about misconduct was effectively “baked into” the labor agreements between police unions and the city, according to a report conducted by task force. > When liberal politicians do try to advance reform proposals, union officials have resorted to highly provocative rhetoric and hard-boiled campaign tactics to lash out at them. This past week, the head of the sergeants’ union in New York posted a police report on Twitter revealing personal information about the daughter of Mr. de Blasio, who had been arrested during a protest.