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This. I always get annoyed when entrepreneurs eg. on Shark Tank say things like “I quit my job, took out two mortgages on my home, maxed out my credit cards and

This. I always get annoyed when entrepreneurs eg. on Shark Tank say things like “I quit my job, took out two mortgages on my home, maxed out my credit cards and spent my kids’ college fund on the business. And look at us now, we’re making millions of dollars a year! Don’t give up when failure looks inevitable!” Probably most of the people who follow this advice to the letter end up financially ruined, they just don’t get a public platform to talk about it…

gerdesj 4y ago
Quite. I think Shark Tank is what we call Dragon's Den in the UK (bunch of civilians pitch to zillionares for cash and mentoring in return for a stake in the business - all on TV). You see some absolute horrors that inevitably will lead to bankruptcy. However you also see some clever folk getting a well deserved leg up. But I think we agree that for everyone that seems to effortlessly do the American Dream thing, there are 1000s or 100,000s that don't. Then there's the likes of me that have run a rather boring small business for 22 years turning over around £1.2M pa but not exactly setting the world on fire! I can sleep at night and have nearly no debt, so that's nice.
- hvs 4y ago
  Maybe it's just me getting older, but running a successful small business that pays the bills and supports my family into retirement is what I would consider the paradigm of success for my life. Congrats on your business.
- nostromo 4y ago
  I just want to point out that you’re living the American Dream. I think you may misunderstand the term as it’s generally used. The phrase isn’t about becoming a billionaire. It’s rooted in the American frontier period, inspired by Protestant values, and is much more aligned with living a happy upper-middle-class life: owning land, a home, enough resources to have a family, and having meaningful or productive work.
  - ROTMetro 4y ago
    I wouldn't even say upper-middle-class. Descended from Irish orphans, jewish refugees, Pennsylvania Dutch coal miners (so the classic Amish Jewish Redhead, without red hair). A relatively safe work environment, owning a home, feeding their family, not having your government try to exterminate you. That was their American dream. You know, the little things.
  - Retric 4y ago
    The American dream was historically a question of upward social mobility both for you from your parents and your children from you. It’s very much a question of economic, social, and political gain. It stood in stark contrast to countries people immigrated from with extremely limited mobility across generations. In that context it’s clear America is failing due to shrinking social mobility.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      The noteworthy part is that the American dream for these people meant mobility from serfdom and abject poverty to a lifestyle that would now be considered abysmal. For an Irish immigrant it wasn't about becoming a billionaire, it was about making sure your children have enough food to survive a winter. Social mobility from nothing to basic necessities is still quite high in the US. Maybe not home ownership, but there are a lot of clear paths to be able to feed a family.
      - Retric 4y ago
        That’s only a small part of the story, middle income and even wealthy people also immigrated to America seeking the American dream of upwards social mobility. Even a surprising number of aristocrats immigrated to America seeking their fortune.
        s1artibartfast 4y ago
        I agree they are not the only story, but I think a majority of people would fall under that umbrella. Middle class in 1800s looked a lot different than today.

gerdesj 4y ago

Quite. I think Shark Tank is what we call Dragon's Den in the UK (bunch of civilians pitch to zillionares for cash and mentoring in return for a stake in the business - all on TV). You see some absolute horrors that inevitably will lead to bankruptcy. However you also see some clever folk getting a well deserved leg up. But I think we agree that for everyone that seems to effortlessly do the American Dream thing, there are 1000s or 100,000s that don't. Then there's the likes of me that have run a rather boring small business for 22 years turning over around £1.2M pa but not exactly setting the world on fire! I can sleep at night and have nearly no debt, so that's nice.

hvs 4y ago
Maybe it's just me getting older, but running a successful small business that pays the bills and supports my family into retirement is what I would consider the paradigm of success for my life. Congrats on your business.
nostromo 4y ago
I just want to point out that you’re living the American Dream. I think you may misunderstand the term as it’s generally used. The phrase isn’t about becoming a billionaire. It’s rooted in the American frontier period, inspired by Protestant values, and is much more aligned with living a happy upper-middle-class life: owning land, a home, enough resources to have a family, and having meaningful or productive work.
- ROTMetro 4y ago
  I wouldn't even say upper-middle-class. Descended from Irish orphans, jewish refugees, Pennsylvania Dutch coal miners (so the classic Amish Jewish Redhead, without red hair). A relatively safe work environment, owning a home, feeding their family, not having your government try to exterminate you. That was their American dream. You know, the little things.
- Retric 4y ago
  The American dream was historically a question of upward social mobility both for you from your parents and your children from you. It’s very much a question of economic, social, and political gain. It stood in stark contrast to countries people immigrated from with extremely limited mobility across generations. In that context it’s clear America is failing due to shrinking social mobility.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    The noteworthy part is that the American dream for these people meant mobility from serfdom and abject poverty to a lifestyle that would now be considered abysmal. For an Irish immigrant it wasn't about becoming a billionaire, it was about making sure your children have enough food to survive a winter. Social mobility from nothing to basic necessities is still quite high in the US. Maybe not home ownership, but there are a lot of clear paths to be able to feed a family.
    - Retric 4y ago
      That’s only a small part of the story, middle income and even wealthy people also immigrated to America seeking the American dream of upwards social mobility. Even a surprising number of aristocrats immigrated to America seeking their fortune.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        I agree they are not the only story, but I think a majority of people would fall under that umbrella. Middle class in 1800s looked a lot different than today.