7 ms·

Why does ancient Egypt's distinctive art style make everything look flat?

45 points by prismatic 4y ago

cc101 4y ago
They used an art technique called fullest aspect (I think). Many of ancient Egypt's figures flatten both the front and the side views into the same figure. I think that is what you are referring to.
spockz 4y ago
The “Egyptian history” book I’m reading with my kid states that the “Egyptians couldn’t draw perspective and therefore flattened everything” and continues with that this is the reason we see multi storied houses in drawing but not in archeological finds. Does this ring a bell or is it just elementary school oversimplification again?
- technothrasher 4y ago
  Well, the article linked to implies that the reason for the flat aspect of the artwork was that they were more interested in strongly conveying themes and concepts than they were reproducing what the eye sees. The article compares it to a modern comic strip. Whether they "couldn't" draw perspective, or were just uninterested, I don't know. I believe it was the Greeks in the 6th(?) century BC who were the first to use linear perspective in their art.
- alehlopeh 4y ago
  Do elementary school kids even understand what perspective is?
  - ajuc 4y ago
    Kids aren't idiots, they just had too little time to learn everything. I've had perspective drawing in art classes in elementary school and nobody had problems understanding it after 10 minute introduction. Have you seen the willy coyote cartoon with a road painted on a rock? It uses perspective, and kids aged 7 understand what happens.
    - Cockbrand 4y ago
      > Kids aren't idiots, they just had too little time to learn everything. These are wise words right there.
  - bcrosby95 4y ago
    I don't know if you're punning or serious here. If you're serious, you can teach elementary school kids to draw with perspective.
  - egypturnash 4y ago
    If my memory of carrying around a book on the subject during my family’s visit to Washington, DC during the Bicentennial is accurate, I had learnt some basics of perspective drawing at the age of five.
  - micromacrofoot 4y ago
    Yes. Not unusual for a first grader to have a basic understanding of it. Naming 3d shapes (pyramids, cylinders, cubes) is kindergarten level stuff.
  - bigbillheck 4y ago
    Some of them do, some of them don't. I think I first learned about it in 3rd grade or so.
- pyinstallwoes 4y ago
  Reeks of oversimplification and hand-waving explanations. The Egyptians clearly understood very advanced geometry and methods to measure the world. Everything the Egyptians did was intentional. How could they build statues if they could only reason in 2d space? That makes no sense. In a way many of their creations are a combination of spacetime(3d and time) accompanied by 2d storytelling as a form of narrative much like we write on the internet except maybe more comic book like.
- slavik81 4y ago
  That sounds reasonable. Until the rules of perspective were understood, artists were mostly quite poor at drawing realistic scenes. It wasn't until 1415 that the rules of perspective were thoroughly described, and the discovery dramatically improved the quality of art that was created after. http://www.essentialvermeer.com/technique/perspective/history.html http://www.essentialvermeer.com/technique/perspective/histor...
mihaic 4y ago
One thing I don't see the article mentioning is how rigid Egyptian culture and society was from 3000 BC up to the time of Alexander the Great. The Narmer palette is the classic example of how the artistic style sprung up almost fully formed in just a few hundred years. After that, it all was just minor variations on the same theme. It's similar to how many modern banks or courthouses have greek columns: when there is cultural continuity, some styles just live on after they reached maturity until the entire culture is wiped out.
- nebqr 4y ago
  Those Greek columns are themselves cribbed from Ancient Egyptian columns which are reproductions in stone of the bundled papyrus stalk columns that they used for support of their mud brick buildings.
- the_omegist 4y ago
  > It's similar to how many modern banks or courthouses have greek columns: when there is cultural continuity, some styles just live on after they reached maturity until the entire culture is wiped out. Or perhaps, if one "purpose" of Art is to reach some aesthetic "perfection", where/when form and purpose reach a common maximum, then there is no need to even try to "improve" anything anymore.
  - cton 4y ago
    Perhaps that’s how banks and the justice system view art. Two pillars of society that are perfect just the way they are.
jhallenworld 4y ago
2d is what you get if you see the entire scene from very far away, for example the stars where thought to be on a fixed shell. But who is very far away, but can see everything? Clearly the gods.. By making the images the way they do elevates the humans who see them to gods.
wrp 4y ago
Ancient Egyptian art was intentionally abstract. It has been called "conceptual" rather than "perceptual" in style. Figures were flattened to provide an abstraction of their most salient features, not because the artists didn't understand perspective. Incidentally, this style came back into fashion for a few centuries in Middle Ages Europe. You can see many examples in tapestries and illuminated manuscripts. If you are curious about Ancient Egyptian culture, these two books have mostly excellent articles. A Companion to Ancient Egyptian Art (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17073753-a-companion-to-ancient-egyptian-art https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17073753-a-companion-to-...) A Companion to Ancient Egypt (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8561459-a-companion-to-ancient-egypt https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8561459-a-companion-to-a...)

45 points by prismatic 4y ago

They used an art technique called fullest aspect (I think). Many of ancient Egypt's figures flatten both the front and the side views into the same figure. I think that is what you are referring to.

spockz 4y ago

The “Egyptian history” book I’m reading with my kid states that the “Egyptians couldn’t draw perspective and therefore flattened everything” and continues with that this is the reason we see multi storied houses in drawing but not in archeological finds. Does this ring a bell or is it just elementary school oversimplification again?

technothrasher 4y ago
Well, the article linked to implies that the reason for the flat aspect of the artwork was that they were more interested in strongly conveying themes and concepts than they were reproducing what the eye sees. The article compares it to a modern comic strip. Whether they "couldn't" draw perspective, or were just uninterested, I don't know. I believe it was the Greeks in the 6th(?) century BC who were the first to use linear perspective in their art.
alehlopeh 4y ago
Do elementary school kids even understand what perspective is?
- ajuc 4y ago
  Kids aren't idiots, they just had too little time to learn everything. I've had perspective drawing in art classes in elementary school and nobody had problems understanding it after 10 minute introduction. Have you seen the willy coyote cartoon with a road painted on a rock? It uses perspective, and kids aged 7 understand what happens.
  - Cockbrand 4y ago
    > Kids aren't idiots, they just had too little time to learn everything. These are wise words right there.
- bcrosby95 4y ago
  I don't know if you're punning or serious here. If you're serious, you can teach elementary school kids to draw with perspective.
- egypturnash 4y ago
  If my memory of carrying around a book on the subject during my family’s visit to Washington, DC during the Bicentennial is accurate, I had learnt some basics of perspective drawing at the age of five.
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  Yes. Not unusual for a first grader to have a basic understanding of it. Naming 3d shapes (pyramids, cylinders, cubes) is kindergarten level stuff.
- bigbillheck 4y ago
  Some of them do, some of them don't. I think I first learned about it in 3rd grade or so.
pyinstallwoes 4y ago
Reeks of oversimplification and hand-waving explanations. The Egyptians clearly understood very advanced geometry and methods to measure the world. Everything the Egyptians did was intentional. How could they build statues if they could only reason in 2d space? That makes no sense. In a way many of their creations are a combination of spacetime(3d and time) accompanied by 2d storytelling as a form of narrative much like we write on the internet except maybe more comic book like.
slavik81 4y ago
That sounds reasonable. Until the rules of perspective were understood, artists were mostly quite poor at drawing realistic scenes. It wasn't until 1415 that the rules of perspective were thoroughly described, and the discovery dramatically improved the quality of art that was created after. http://www.essentialvermeer.com/technique/perspective/history.html http://www.essentialvermeer.com/technique/perspective/histor...

mihaic 4y ago

One thing I don't see the article mentioning is how rigid Egyptian culture and society was from 3000 BC up to the time of Alexander the Great. The Narmer palette is the classic example of how the artistic style sprung up almost fully formed in just a few hundred years. After that, it all was just minor variations on the same theme. It's similar to how many modern banks or courthouses have greek columns: when there is cultural continuity, some styles just live on after they reached maturity until the entire culture is wiped out.

nebqr 4y ago
Those Greek columns are themselves cribbed from Ancient Egyptian columns which are reproductions in stone of the bundled papyrus stalk columns that they used for support of their mud brick buildings.
the_omegist 4y ago
> It's similar to how many modern banks or courthouses have greek columns: when there is cultural continuity, some styles just live on after they reached maturity until the entire culture is wiped out. Or perhaps, if one "purpose" of Art is to reach some aesthetic "perfection", where/when form and purpose reach a common maximum, then there is no need to even try to "improve" anything anymore.
- cton 4y ago
  Perhaps that’s how banks and the justice system view art. Two pillars of society that are perfect just the way they are.

jhallenworld 4y ago

2d is what you get if you see the entire scene from very far away, for example the stars where thought to be on a fixed shell. But who is very far away, but can see everything? Clearly the gods.. By making the images the way they do elevates the humans who see them to gods.

wrp 4y ago

Ancient Egyptian art was intentionally abstract. It has been called "conceptual" rather than "perceptual" in style. Figures were flattened to provide an abstraction of their most salient features, not because the artists didn't understand perspective. Incidentally, this style came back into fashion for a few centuries in Middle Ages Europe. You can see many examples in tapestries and illuminated manuscripts. If you are curious about Ancient Egyptian culture, these two books have mostly excellent articles. A Companion to Ancient Egyptian Art (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17073753-a-companion-to-ancient-egyptian-art https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17073753-a-companion-to-...) A Companion to Ancient Egypt (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8561459-a-companion-to-ancient-egypt https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8561459-a-companion-to-a...)