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As a Ukrainian, I sincerely thank you for writing this. It is often disheartening to see how many people of HN don't realise what is happening (and, frankly, h

As a Ukrainian, I sincerely thank you for writing this. It is often disheartening to see how many people of HN don't realise what is happening (and, frankly, has been happening for 8 years) and then read cold opinions devoid of empathy. What is the compromise when the other side's goal is extermination?

baisq 4y ago
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  And it's not just Ukraine - what about Sri Lanka which is collapsing by the minute? I do care about the people, but if I am completely honest, I could care less about the government. If the current government can fend off Russia, great, but maybe (I don't know for sure) it would be better for the people for some sort of diplomatic solution to be created (perhaps surrender a part of Ukraine but allow anyone interested to leave the new Russia peacefully), that might be better for people on the ground than an endless war. Surrender for now for the sake of stability, but regroup and don't allow such a thing to ever happen again and take some lessons learned from this.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Sri Lanka hasn't spent the last decade invading multiple nations. Ukraine's not facing internal strife, they're facing an external threat.
    - gjsman-1000 4y ago
      But are the people of Sri Lanka not going to suffer immensely in a different way and thus also need our aid, assistance, and attention?
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        Yes, and when the famine (https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/we-are-going-die-sri-lanka-warns-food-shortages-2022-05-20/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/we-are-going-die-...) hits in a few months, we should - and probably will - assist. We're just not likely to intervene with the protests going on right now.
    - HKH2 4y ago
      When Ukrainians shell civilian targets in the Donbas, is that not internal strife?
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        I'm not inclined to see Russian-backed separatist movements as entirely "internal".
        HKH2 4y ago
        I'm not inclined to see American-backed separatist movements as entirely "internal" either, but Ukraine is not as homogeneous as some would have you believe.
- lostapathy 4y ago
  Not caring only really works, in this case, if you think Russia would stop if they conquer Ukraine. Personally I don’t think they will stop there, so sooner or later everyone in Europe will eventually need to worry.
- excieve 4y ago
  Empathy is what distinguishes us from being just angry monkeys. But then, there are of course very selfish goals like long-term survival and freedom to live as you like outside of yet another authoritarian prison of nations. Which would be less likely for at least a significant part of Europe should most not care now.
  - baisq 4y ago
    Practically nobody had empathy when the West bombed the Middle East for decades. I guess we all are angry monkeys. ;)
- Scarblac 4y ago
  Ah, but if we don't care about Ukraine, why would we care about your country?
- belorn 4y ago
  We should all be worried when the war goal is Lebensraum. It was the leading motivation for world war 2, and there can never really be an end to the ambition of colonialism through war.
mythrwy 4y ago
I don't see the goal being extermination at all. If that were the case the tactics used would be much different. Control, integration, subjugation, colonization, there are a lot of other words that are more fitting without the "genocide" hyperbole.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  You don't have to exterminate the population (although Russia's been there, done that in Ukraine) to exterminate the country as a going concern, or the national identity.
- alangibson 4y ago
  Check out Russian state TV. They've been very explicit in saying they don't think 'Ukraine', Ukranians or even Ukranian language actually exists.
- Scarblac 4y ago
  They killed most of the population of Mariupol that wasn't able to flee, shell civilians continuously, have deported millions of Ukrainians to Russia so far where children are taken apart from their parents and the parents are taken to "filtration camps" where many are shot and the rest relocated to the Far East. On top of the rhetoric that Ukrainians as a people shouldn't exist. There is no doubt that it is genocide and termination.
- btilly 4y ago
  Genocide has a specific definition, and Russian actions meet that definition. This is genocide, and it is immoral for you to avoid accepting that. The accepted definition is in Article 2 of https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-... Russian propaganda amply demonstrates their intent. The physical part is also well-established. For example Russian filtration camps have been use to "process" then relocate over a million Ukrainians. Including over 250,000 children who will be raised with propaganda about not being Ukrainian. You may prefer mealymouthed substitutes for calling a spade a spade. But I condemn you for normalizing genocide by refusing to use its proper name.

baisq 4y ago

gjsman-1000 4y ago
And it's not just Ukraine - what about Sri Lanka which is collapsing by the minute? I do care about the people, but if I am completely honest, I could care less about the government. If the current government can fend off Russia, great, but maybe (I don't know for sure) it would be better for the people for some sort of diplomatic solution to be created (perhaps surrender a part of Ukraine but allow anyone interested to leave the new Russia peacefully), that might be better for people on the ground than an endless war. Surrender for now for the sake of stability, but regroup and don't allow such a thing to ever happen again and take some lessons learned from this.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Sri Lanka hasn't spent the last decade invading multiple nations. Ukraine's not facing internal strife, they're facing an external threat.
  - gjsman-1000 4y ago
    But are the people of Sri Lanka not going to suffer immensely in a different way and thus also need our aid, assistance, and attention?
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      Yes, and when the famine (https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/we-are-going-die-sri-lanka-warns-food-shortages-2022-05-20/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/we-are-going-die-...) hits in a few months, we should - and probably will - assist. We're just not likely to intervene with the protests going on right now.
  - HKH2 4y ago
    When Ukrainians shell civilian targets in the Donbas, is that not internal strife?
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      I'm not inclined to see Russian-backed separatist movements as entirely "internal".
      - HKH2 4y ago
        I'm not inclined to see American-backed separatist movements as entirely "internal" either, but Ukraine is not as homogeneous as some would have you believe.
lostapathy 4y ago
Not caring only really works, in this case, if you think Russia would stop if they conquer Ukraine. Personally I don’t think they will stop there, so sooner or later everyone in Europe will eventually need to worry.
excieve 4y ago
Empathy is what distinguishes us from being just angry monkeys. But then, there are of course very selfish goals like long-term survival and freedom to live as you like outside of yet another authoritarian prison of nations. Which would be less likely for at least a significant part of Europe should most not care now.
- baisq 4y ago
  Practically nobody had empathy when the West bombed the Middle East for decades. I guess we all are angry monkeys. ;)
Scarblac 4y ago
Ah, but if we don't care about Ukraine, why would we care about your country?
belorn 4y ago
We should all be worried when the war goal is Lebensraum. It was the leading motivation for world war 2, and there can never really be an end to the ambition of colonialism through war.

mythrwy 4y ago

I don't see the goal being extermination at all. If that were the case the tactics used would be much different. Control, integration, subjugation, colonization, there are a lot of other words that are more fitting without the "genocide" hyperbole.

ceejayoz 4y ago
You don't have to exterminate the population (although Russia's been there, done that in Ukraine) to exterminate the country as a going concern, or the national identity.
alangibson 4y ago
Check out Russian state TV. They've been very explicit in saying they don't think 'Ukraine', Ukranians or even Ukranian language actually exists.
Scarblac 4y ago
They killed most of the population of Mariupol that wasn't able to flee, shell civilians continuously, have deported millions of Ukrainians to Russia so far where children are taken apart from their parents and the parents are taken to "filtration camps" where many are shot and the rest relocated to the Far East. On top of the rhetoric that Ukrainians as a people shouldn't exist. There is no doubt that it is genocide and termination.
btilly 4y ago
Genocide has a specific definition, and Russian actions meet that definition. This is genocide, and it is immoral for you to avoid accepting that. The accepted definition is in Article 2 of https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-... Russian propaganda amply demonstrates their intent. The physical part is also well-established. For example Russian filtration camps have been use to "process" then relocate over a million Ukrainians. Including over 250,000 children who will be raised with propaganda about not being Ukrainian. You may prefer mealymouthed substitutes for calling a spade a spade. But I condemn you for normalizing genocide by refusing to use its proper name.