12 ms·

> losing body fat means that you must continuously make choices that decrease your comfort in some way - eating fewer highly rewarding foods, maintaining a stat

> losing body fat means that you must continuously make choices that decrease your comfort in some way - eating fewer highly rewarding foods, maintaining a state of hunger, increasing activity level Not necessarily! I've successfully lost a lot of body fat (~50 pounds over the last 18 months) by deliberately changing my diet to eat more foods (that I like) that are lower in energy density than what I was eating before -- fruits and veggies, lean meats, etc. I do end up eating fewer stereotypically highly rewarding foods, but that's because I'm already full of other highly rewarding-to-me foods and don't feel like having a treat or a huge fast food meal or whatever. And I'm certainly not tolerating frequent hunger!

butwhywhyoh 4y ago
You just restated what the OP said, but tried to paint it somehow in a more positive light. You yourself stated you are "eating fewer ... highly rewarding foods". So what exactly are you contradicting in their statement?
- awsrocks 4y ago
  I think they’re saying that they eat equivalently rewarding foods that are more healthy.
- convexfunction 4y ago
  That one word you elided, "stereotypically", was doing a lot of work! I'm not actually eating fewer highly rewarding-to-me foods, just less junk food, and I'm not constantly hungry.
- arbitrage 4y ago
  The implicit context there is that the changes to diet and behaviour don't have to be "choices that decrease your comfort in some way". That is, it doesn't have to be uncomfortable.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  They are trying to convince everyone that the fruit & veg & lean meats is every bit as enjoyable as a steak and piece of cheesecake. It may be for them, but as a rule I have my doubts.
  - convexfunction 4y ago
    There are some fruits and vegetables and lean meats (which absolutely includes "leaner cuts of steak with the fat trimmed off") that I quite sincerely like as much as junk food, if not more. Two pan-fried salmon fillets and a big bowl of brussels sprouts with butter beats the pants off even a pretty good burger-and-fries, the main downside being the prep (and, well, the cost for most people). A pound of fresh strawberries is damn good and not something I have to force myself to eat, etcera. I don't deliberately avoid dessert, though I do tend to eat it less than I used to. I'll have the cheesecake if I really feel like it. My sympathies to those who really just don't like any fruits or vegetables, but there are lots of other margins to operate on in lowering your dietary energy density. e.g., for a side with your steak, I assert most people will enjoy a baked potato with a bit of butter (~1 cal/gram) about as much as garlic bread (~3 to 4 cal/gram).
    - bertr4nd 4y ago
      > I assert most people will enjoy a baked potato ... about as much as garlic bread See I'd assert the opposite, or at least the following more nuanced version, for myself: If I make a baked potato, I'll eat it and be quite happy -- even delighted! -- with it. But! If I have to choose between a baked potato or garlic bread (say, on a restaurant menu) I'd choose the garlic bread virtually every time, unless I'm exerting Herculean levels of willpower to choose healthier options. And if I'm served a baked potato and garlic bread, I'd probably eat the potato, and then somehow find room to eat the garlic bread anyways. I don't disagree that healthy food can be very tasty, but I mitigate my own struggles with healthy eating by "merely" never keeping unhealthy options around, so I can focus more on the joy of the healthy food, and not have to constantly choose to avoid the high-calorie treats.
    - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
- wutbrodo 4y ago
  He said that he eats fewer _stereotypically_ high-reward foods because he eats other high-reward foods. How do you interpret that as equivalent to "continually decreasing comfort"? The pt is that the reward function isn't static, and you can move yourself to an equilibrium with as much utility/comfort that is much healthier. This has been my experience too. Eg, I'm almost a little grossed out by the proportion of refined carbs on the plates of some of my friends: not only is it unhealthy, it's the most boring part of the meal (to my palate)! And my habituation to sugar has gotten low enough that things taste much sweeter to me than they do to most people. If anything, this has _increased_ the reward I get from eating, since their unfettered preferences need to be consciously constrained by awareness of their health, while mine line up pretty well.
- jimmydddd 4y ago
  By "stereotypically" highly rewarding, I think they are saying that they were able, over time, to increase their enjoyment of less calorie dense food. One non-traditional diet book I read basically said, "many people have to eat more vegetables to successfully diet. So spend a month experimenting with preparing different vegetables all different ways until you find ways to prepare vegetable meals that you find delicious."
- mym1990 4y ago
  I think you opportunistically left out the "stereotypically" in your quote. OP is not saying they are eating less rewarding foods for them but less foods that others might find rewarding.
- andreareina 4y ago
  Reward ≠ comfort. GP is saying that they reduced their calorie intake while actually eating more, and not incurring extra hunger. Which is absolutely plausible.
treeman79 4y ago
Your using Satiety Index method. An excellent method. https://optimisingnutrition.com/calculating-satiety/amp/ https://optimisingnutrition.com/calculating-satiety/amp/
- csours 4y ago
  Understanding satiety is a powerful tool in managing hunger and health.
csours 4y ago
I'm happy for you! But this is exactly what I mean about the feeling and experience of hunger not being comparable.
bilsbie 4y ago
Can you recommend a few of the foods you switched to?
- csours 4y ago
  Fresh fruit is a big one for me.
- convexfunction 4y ago
  - Carbs: potatoes, rice, pasta (yes really, the common element here is high water content; the other stuff you put on these can of course make a big difference) - Dairy: Greek yogurt or cottage cheese are usually part of my breakfast. I'll have a whey protein shake in milk most days, since I'm also trying to build muscle; liquids don't normally "count" toward satiety in the same way, though milk itself is complicated and contributes at least a little more toward satiety because the protein makes gastric emptying slower. - Meats: Most unprocessed meats, as well as some deli meats (e.g. roast beef or ham but not salami), are great on satiety per calorie IMO, even if not usually considered "lean". I guess don't make a habit out of prime rib? I'd credit "plan to have a large amount of meat for most dinners" as the most important single change I made, perhaps in part because it makes me less likely to have something from a restaurant for dinner instead but also because meat is just so satisfying without being too energy-dense. Eggs count here too, ~2 cal/gram. - Veggies: anything is great, but my favorites are brussels sprouts, sugar snap peas, spinach, asparagus, and corn. This won't be news to anyone but salads are usually a good choice if you're eating from a restaurant. - Fruits: anything is great, but my favorites are strawberries, watermelon, bananas, and oranges (I prefer clementines because they're easy to eat) - Junk food: I find ice cream sandwiches (~150 calories) are a convenient way to sate my sweet tooth in a way that isn't ridiculous, even if they're not really low energy density. Also, fancy dark chocolate is hard to overeat. And a special mention to making my own coffee (with generous milk and sugar-free flavored syrup, ~60 calories per cup) rather than getting lattes from a coffee shop (~150 to 200 calories).

butwhywhyoh 4y ago

You just restated what the OP said, but tried to paint it somehow in a more positive light. You yourself stated you are "eating fewer ... highly rewarding foods". So what exactly are you contradicting in their statement?

awsrocks 4y ago
I think they’re saying that they eat equivalently rewarding foods that are more healthy.
convexfunction 4y ago
That one word you elided, "stereotypically", was doing a lot of work! I'm not actually eating fewer highly rewarding-to-me foods, just less junk food, and I'm not constantly hungry.
arbitrage 4y ago
The implicit context there is that the changes to diet and behaviour don't have to be "choices that decrease your comfort in some way". That is, it doesn't have to be uncomfortable.
SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
They are trying to convince everyone that the fruit & veg & lean meats is every bit as enjoyable as a steak and piece of cheesecake. It may be for them, but as a rule I have my doubts.
- convexfunction 4y ago
  There are some fruits and vegetables and lean meats (which absolutely includes "leaner cuts of steak with the fat trimmed off") that I quite sincerely like as much as junk food, if not more. Two pan-fried salmon fillets and a big bowl of brussels sprouts with butter beats the pants off even a pretty good burger-and-fries, the main downside being the prep (and, well, the cost for most people). A pound of fresh strawberries is damn good and not something I have to force myself to eat, etcera. I don't deliberately avoid dessert, though I do tend to eat it less than I used to. I'll have the cheesecake if I really feel like it. My sympathies to those who really just don't like any fruits or vegetables, but there are lots of other margins to operate on in lowering your dietary energy density. e.g., for a side with your steak, I assert most people will enjoy a baked potato with a bit of butter (~1 cal/gram) about as much as garlic bread (~3 to 4 cal/gram).
  - bertr4nd 4y ago
    > I assert most people will enjoy a baked potato ... about as much as garlic bread See I'd assert the opposite, or at least the following more nuanced version, for myself: If I make a baked potato, I'll eat it and be quite happy -- even delighted! -- with it. But! If I have to choose between a baked potato or garlic bread (say, on a restaurant menu) I'd choose the garlic bread virtually every time, unless I'm exerting Herculean levels of willpower to choose healthier options. And if I'm served a baked potato and garlic bread, I'd probably eat the potato, and then somehow find room to eat the garlic bread anyways. I don't disagree that healthy food can be very tasty, but I mitigate my own struggles with healthy eating by "merely" never keeping unhealthy options around, so I can focus more on the joy of the healthy food, and not have to constantly choose to avoid the high-calorie treats.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
wutbrodo 4y ago
He said that he eats fewer _stereotypically_ high-reward foods because he eats other high-reward foods. How do you interpret that as equivalent to "continually decreasing comfort"? The pt is that the reward function isn't static, and you can move yourself to an equilibrium with as much utility/comfort that is much healthier. This has been my experience too. Eg, I'm almost a little grossed out by the proportion of refined carbs on the plates of some of my friends: not only is it unhealthy, it's the most boring part of the meal (to my palate)! And my habituation to sugar has gotten low enough that things taste much sweeter to me than they do to most people. If anything, this has _increased_ the reward I get from eating, since their unfettered preferences need to be consciously constrained by awareness of their health, while mine line up pretty well.
jimmydddd 4y ago
By "stereotypically" highly rewarding, I think they are saying that they were able, over time, to increase their enjoyment of less calorie dense food. One non-traditional diet book I read basically said, "many people have to eat more vegetables to successfully diet. So spend a month experimenting with preparing different vegetables all different ways until you find ways to prepare vegetable meals that you find delicious."
mym1990 4y ago
I think you opportunistically left out the "stereotypically" in your quote. OP is not saying they are eating less rewarding foods for them but less foods that others might find rewarding.
andreareina 4y ago
Reward ≠ comfort. GP is saying that they reduced their calorie intake while actually eating more, and not incurring extra hunger. Which is absolutely plausible.

treeman79 4y ago

Your using Satiety Index method. An excellent method. https://optimisingnutrition.com/calculating-satiety/amp/ https://optimisingnutrition.com/calculating-satiety/amp/

csours 4y ago
Understanding satiety is a powerful tool in managing hunger and health.

csours 4y ago

I'm happy for you! But this is exactly what I mean about the feeling and experience of hunger not being comparable.

bilsbie 4y ago

Can you recommend a few of the foods you switched to?

csours 4y ago
Fresh fruit is a big one for me.
convexfunction 4y ago
- Carbs: potatoes, rice, pasta (yes really, the common element here is high water content; the other stuff you put on these can of course make a big difference) - Dairy: Greek yogurt or cottage cheese are usually part of my breakfast. I'll have a whey protein shake in milk most days, since I'm also trying to build muscle; liquids don't normally "count" toward satiety in the same way, though milk itself is complicated and contributes at least a little more toward satiety because the protein makes gastric emptying slower. - Meats: Most unprocessed meats, as well as some deli meats (e.g. roast beef or ham but not salami), are great on satiety per calorie IMO, even if not usually considered "lean". I guess don't make a habit out of prime rib? I'd credit "plan to have a large amount of meat for most dinners" as the most important single change I made, perhaps in part because it makes me less likely to have something from a restaurant for dinner instead but also because meat is just so satisfying without being too energy-dense. Eggs count here too, ~2 cal/gram. - Veggies: anything is great, but my favorites are brussels sprouts, sugar snap peas, spinach, asparagus, and corn. This won't be news to anyone but salads are usually a good choice if you're eating from a restaurant. - Fruits: anything is great, but my favorites are strawberries, watermelon, bananas, and oranges (I prefer clementines because they're easy to eat) - Junk food: I find ice cream sandwiches (~150 calories) are a convenient way to sate my sweet tooth in a way that isn't ridiculous, even if they're not really low energy density. Also, fancy dark chocolate is hard to overeat. And a special mention to making my own coffee (with generous milk and sugar-free flavored syrup, ~60 calories per cup) rather than getting lattes from a coffee shop (~150 to 200 calories).