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"downfall of Europe" Go look at some photos of Europe immediately post WWII. Especially Poland and Germany. If we survived that and rose again from literal as

"downfall of Europe" Go look at some photos of Europe immediately post WWII. Especially Poland and Germany. If we survived that and rose again from literal ashes, we won't be done in by one winter without Russian gas. This continent withstood a lot worse than a limited period of expensive heating.

88840-8855 4y ago
I suggest the following: those who support the vAlUeS should stop consuming ALL products from China and energy from Russia those who dont care should get those products to normal prices This is fair. Then we will see how many people actually support all this political bullshit.
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  "normal prices" - such thing does not exist, because there isn't any "norm" in the markets. Markets develop. Do you mean "pre-war prices"? They aren't going to come back anytime soon because the entire political and economic balance in Europe has changed and the prices already factor in the uncertainty.
zirror 4y ago
But that was when we had the majority of our industrial capability in Europe and with aid from the US. We also still had open coal mines and people didn't mind burning coal and wood in masses (which was the primary heat source at the time). But, most importantly, we also had lots of young people. The aging of Europe will be the final nail in the coffin. Who will rebuild Europe? Not the roughly 30 percent over the age of 60 (who, coincidently, ran Europe into the ground for the last 30 years+).
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  True, but we do not have anything resembling WWII-levels of destruction on the vast majority of the continent, so the effort needed to get back on track is an order of magnitude lower. In 1945, Mariupols were everywhere. And post-WWII Europe was forcibly split into competing power blocks, which strangulated a lot of the pre-WWII commerce. Contemporary EU is a common market where goods and workforce can freely flow. This compensates for the lack of young people somewhat. For example, Germany post-WWII was seriously handicapped by the fact that they lost a large portion of their male population in war, either killed/maimed, or taken prisoner by the USSR which only let them return after 1950.

88840-8855 4y ago

I suggest the following: those who support the vAlUeS should stop consuming ALL products from China and energy from Russia those who dont care should get those products to normal prices This is fair. Then we will see how many people actually support all this political bullshit.

inglor_cz 4y ago
"normal prices" - such thing does not exist, because there isn't any "norm" in the markets. Markets develop. Do you mean "pre-war prices"? They aren't going to come back anytime soon because the entire political and economic balance in Europe has changed and the prices already factor in the uncertainty.

zirror 4y ago

But that was when we had the majority of our industrial capability in Europe and with aid from the US. We also still had open coal mines and people didn't mind burning coal and wood in masses (which was the primary heat source at the time). But, most importantly, we also had lots of young people. The aging of Europe will be the final nail in the coffin. Who will rebuild Europe? Not the roughly 30 percent over the age of 60 (who, coincidently, ran Europe into the ground for the last 30 years+).

inglor_cz 4y ago
True, but we do not have anything resembling WWII-levels of destruction on the vast majority of the continent, so the effort needed to get back on track is an order of magnitude lower. In 1945, Mariupols were everywhere. And post-WWII Europe was forcibly split into competing power blocks, which strangulated a lot of the pre-WWII commerce. Contemporary EU is a common market where goods and workforce can freely flow. This compensates for the lack of young people somewhat. For example, Germany post-WWII was seriously handicapped by the fact that they lost a large portion of their male population in war, either killed/maimed, or taken prisoner by the USSR which only let them return after 1950.