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Counterpoint: The data that municipalities store is not super sensitive, at worst it contains information about the number of sick days and salary. If the NSA

Counterpoint: The data that municipalities store is not super sensitive, at worst it contains information about the number of sick days and salary. If the NSA cares about this data at all, it will probably have other means to obtain it. On the other hand, the municipalities might now have to spend a lot more taxpayer money to support a worse system that might reduce their efficiency, increasing wait times and frustrations for citizens.

danaris 4y ago
That sounds very much like an "if you have nothing to hide, why are you worried about privacy?" argument. Which is deeply suspect and entirely serves the interest of the massive surveillance apparatus.
- djbebs 4y ago
  On the contrary, since the state ostensibly exists to serve its citizens, there is no legitimate reason to withhold any data whatsoever from them. The idea that all but the most dangerous military information should not be public in real time flies in the face of the concept of an informed citizenry, and is far more dangerous and pernicious than its access by hostile powers. If some information should not be public, it simply should not be accessible by the state.
  - danaris 4y ago
    But here we're talking about giving data about the citizens to private entities in a completely different country. I can see there being some argument for eliminating the whole idea of "classified information", but that is absolutely not what is being discussed here. This is about the private data of the people of Denmark, and keeping it private.
- konschubert 4y ago
  I see your point. But I think there is also value in choosing your battles. I would l rather see resources spent towards the defense against Russian aggression, instead of major IT projects with really unclear privacy impact.
  - danaris 4y ago
    I very much doubt that there's any real need to be making decisions at that level. The money and other resources going to this IT effort is deeply unlikely to be anywhere close to the pots of money that would be considered for allocation against Russian aggression. And given that this is in Denmark—which, while certainly within a zone of some concern, is hardly in any imminent danger from Russia—it seems to me that focusing on defending against Russian aggression, at the expense of effectively everything else, would be quite unproductive. Or is it just that you don't think spending on maintaining privacy is worthwhile no matter what, and the Russia situation is a convenient distraction you can point to?
    - konschubert 4y ago
      I think privacy is important. I’m scared of the EU push to backdoor encryption, for example. But I truly think that Russia is a bigger threat to the average danish citizen than the NSA. For example: https://cphpost.dk/?p=131412 https://cphpost.dk/?p=131412 And yes, money gets moved between governments pots all the time.
hulitu 4y ago
You're right, apart from name, age, address, type of home there is no sensitive information stored.

danaris 4y ago

That sounds very much like an "if you have nothing to hide, why are you worried about privacy?" argument. Which is deeply suspect and entirely serves the interest of the massive surveillance apparatus.

djbebs 4y ago
On the contrary, since the state ostensibly exists to serve its citizens, there is no legitimate reason to withhold any data whatsoever from them. The idea that all but the most dangerous military information should not be public in real time flies in the face of the concept of an informed citizenry, and is far more dangerous and pernicious than its access by hostile powers. If some information should not be public, it simply should not be accessible by the state.
- danaris 4y ago
  But here we're talking about giving data about the citizens to private entities in a completely different country. I can see there being some argument for eliminating the whole idea of "classified information", but that is absolutely not what is being discussed here. This is about the private data of the people of Denmark, and keeping it private.
konschubert 4y ago
I see your point. But I think there is also value in choosing your battles. I would l rather see resources spent towards the defense against Russian aggression, instead of major IT projects with really unclear privacy impact.
- danaris 4y ago
  I very much doubt that there's any real need to be making decisions at that level. The money and other resources going to this IT effort is deeply unlikely to be anywhere close to the pots of money that would be considered for allocation against Russian aggression. And given that this is in Denmark—which, while certainly within a zone of some concern, is hardly in any imminent danger from Russia—it seems to me that focusing on defending against Russian aggression, at the expense of effectively everything else, would be quite unproductive. Or is it just that you don't think spending on maintaining privacy is worthwhile no matter what, and the Russia situation is a convenient distraction you can point to?
  - konschubert 4y ago
    I think privacy is important. I’m scared of the EU push to backdoor encryption, for example. But I truly think that Russia is a bigger threat to the average danish citizen than the NSA. For example: https://cphpost.dk/?p=131412 https://cphpost.dk/?p=131412 And yes, money gets moved between governments pots all the time.

hulitu 4y ago

You're right, apart from name, age, address, type of home there is no sensitive information stored.