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I like arch, except for the stupid command line arguments to pacman. I wish they had just kept it more standard. There's nothing wrong with naming "install" ins

I like arch, except for the stupid command line arguments to pacman. I wish they had just kept it more standard. There's nothing wrong with naming "install" install and "search" search. Feels to me like a case of inventing complexity just to make it feel a little more elitist. pacman -Ss gnome # searches for gnome pacman -S gnome # installs gnome

botker 15y ago
I had the same reaction at first, but its pith became a selling point as I learned the flags. Of course there's nothing stopping you from wrapping the command.
Nic0 15y ago
Command line tool use much more often -x or --foo arguments that a word. Also -S is still faster to type than install, personally I won't switch for 'install'. Nevertheless, you may add some alias to change the behavior if it's annoying you.
- adestefan 15y ago
  I never liked CLI tools that have a "mode" switch that then overloads command arguments. Pacman is especially confusing since -S actually means the sync mode. Which doesn't really fit with the idea of installing a package. Also, why do you use sync mode to install a package, but have a special remove (-R) mode to remove a package? Shouldn't there be a -I to install? To take it further, standard use cases for a package manager should be install, upgrade, search and remove with standard arguments -i/--install, -u/--upgrade, -s/--search, -r/--remove. It seems that most of the package managers get this wrong. For apt-get what's the difference to update, upgrade and dist-upgrade? For yum why is there both an update and an upgrade and why is there a special groupinstall? I know the answer to these questions, but it's confusing until you wrap your head around it.
  - chimeracoder 15y ago
    > Pacman is especially confusing since -S actually means the sync mode. Which doesn't really fit with the idea of installing a package. The idea is that you are synchronizing your copy of the local package (which is currently empty/nonexistant) with the remote copy. It's also the same command you use to update that package. So, pacman -S foo will upgrade foo if it exists locally, and find and install the most recent version of foo if it does not. Once you get used to it, the command-line switches in pacman actually address your second concern (the one with apt/yum). In pacman, everything is built on top of a very simple database model - it just so happens that that simple database model is also powerful enough to serve a range of complex functions.
johanbev 15y ago
That's just how CLI apps work, there is nothing elitist about it. Its "cd" and "ls -la" and "cat", not "change-directory," "list-directory long-format everything" and so on. The learning curve might be steep, but it's well worth it, especially for those of us who "live" in a shell. In the particular case of pacman, I really like the design of the arguments, in particular the top level ones. -S is for syncing, -R is for removing, and -Q is for querying and so on. Nice!
- 211231321 15y ago
  Yes, but why rename install to syncing and search to query? Why not just call it install and make it -i for install and -s for search which is still search. I think that is what the OP is trying to say.
  - johanbev 15y ago
    Searching isn't the same as querying. -Q is for operations dealing on the _local_ repository. -S synchronizes your local repository with the remote repository. In a way installing could very well be -Si (-S --install), but installing is the default action in -S mode instead. Pacman is maybe somewhat idiosyncratic, but I find it very useful and simple once you get the basics.
    - 211231321 15y ago
      Oh, i used it. Found it delightful, actually I am yet to encounter a very bad package management system. They are all really good since I started using linux.
swasheck 15y ago
I guess it's a matter of what you're used to and once you get used to pacman/pacaur/yaourt, then I guess it becomes fairly standard. Package managers are funny beasts. They're like children, when someone rips the flaws of one, the community comes rallying to its defense. Having said that, I've personally always hated Zypper.

botker 15y ago

I had the same reaction at first, but its pith became a selling point as I learned the flags. Of course there's nothing stopping you from wrapping the command.

Nic0 15y ago

Command line tool use much more often -x or --foo arguments that a word. Also -S is still faster to type than install, personally I won't switch for 'install'. Nevertheless, you may add some alias to change the behavior if it's annoying you.

adestefan 15y ago
I never liked CLI tools that have a "mode" switch that then overloads command arguments. Pacman is especially confusing since -S actually means the sync mode. Which doesn't really fit with the idea of installing a package. Also, why do you use sync mode to install a package, but have a special remove (-R) mode to remove a package? Shouldn't there be a -I to install? To take it further, standard use cases for a package manager should be install, upgrade, search and remove with standard arguments -i/--install, -u/--upgrade, -s/--search, -r/--remove. It seems that most of the package managers get this wrong. For apt-get what's the difference to update, upgrade and dist-upgrade? For yum why is there both an update and an upgrade and why is there a special groupinstall? I know the answer to these questions, but it's confusing until you wrap your head around it.
- chimeracoder 15y ago
  > Pacman is especially confusing since -S actually means the sync mode. Which doesn't really fit with the idea of installing a package. The idea is that you are synchronizing your copy of the local package (which is currently empty/nonexistant) with the remote copy. It's also the same command you use to update that package. So, pacman -S foo will upgrade foo if it exists locally, and find and install the most recent version of foo if it does not. Once you get used to it, the command-line switches in pacman actually address your second concern (the one with apt/yum). In pacman, everything is built on top of a very simple database model - it just so happens that that simple database model is also powerful enough to serve a range of complex functions.

johanbev 15y ago

That's just how CLI apps work, there is nothing elitist about it. Its "cd" and "ls -la" and "cat", not "change-directory," "list-directory long-format everything" and so on. The learning curve might be steep, but it's well worth it, especially for those of us who "live" in a shell. In the particular case of pacman, I really like the design of the arguments, in particular the top level ones. -S is for syncing, -R is for removing, and -Q is for querying and so on. Nice!

211231321 15y ago
Yes, but why rename install to syncing and search to query? Why not just call it install and make it -i for install and -s for search which is still search. I think that is what the OP is trying to say.
- johanbev 15y ago
  Searching isn't the same as querying. -Q is for operations dealing on the _local_ repository. -S synchronizes your local repository with the remote repository. In a way installing could very well be -Si (-S --install), but installing is the default action in -S mode instead. Pacman is maybe somewhat idiosyncratic, but I find it very useful and simple once you get the basics.
  - 211231321 15y ago
    Oh, i used it. Found it delightful, actually I am yet to encounter a very bad package management system. They are all really good since I started using linux.

swasheck 15y ago

I guess it's a matter of what you're used to and once you get used to pacman/pacaur/yaourt, then I guess it becomes fairly standard. Package managers are funny beasts. They're like children, when someone rips the flaws of one, the community comes rallying to its defense. Having said that, I've personally always hated Zypper.