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Isn't that kind of the other way around? Ignoring the obvious moral question, in a primarily agrarian economy slave labor is useful because it's relatively eas

• ghaff 4y ago
  >OTOH in an industrialized society you wouldn't want slaves even if you could have them. Really? Leaving aside the moral issues most associated with slavery specifically, there is a huge demand in modern industrialized society for all sorts of low cost human labor. If middle class-ish people in the West could hire more people for the equivalent of a couple dollars an hour many would absolutely do so.
  • qsort 4y ago
    It's very unlikely that slaves would be able to cover any present-day jobs except very menial service tasks. Cleaning houses, mowing lawns, sure. But you wouldn't even get as far as a taxi/truck driver, which is one of the least qualified jobs today.
    • snapcaster 4y ago
      This is actually completely incorrect. Slavery has and always will be profitable and it is still something being experienced by millions of people today. >Cleaning houses, mowing lawns, sure. But you wouldn't even get as far as a taxi/truck driver Again I see how one might expect this to be true but it isn't. some industries where slavery is widespread: - Sex work - ocean fishing - mining I'm sure there are others
      • deleted 4y ago
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    • thatguy0900 4y ago
    • ghaff 4y ago
      Just because someone is born into poor circumstances without many options for upward mobility doesn't make them stupid. Furthermore, truck driver isn't a particularly low skill occupation. I couldn't drive an 18-wheeler. Can you? And something like taxi driving mostly seems low skill because most adults in industrialized society have been driving since they were relatively young.
      • qsort 4y ago
        It's not a reasonable interpretation of what I wrote that I'm implying they're stupid.
        • HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
          I think it is. That was pretty much the impression it gave me.
      • wrycoder 4y ago
        The skill was in having a map of London in your head.
    • bluGill 4y ago
      Slaves did many skilled labor jobs back in the day. In Uncle Tom's Cabin (a book you really should read, but beware the purpose was to make you pick up your gun and march, so if you have those tendencies...) on of the important slaves held a good factory job. Of course most slaves were just hard labor, but they did hold other positions. I think you can find examples of slaves holding every position in society other than government leader.
      • qsort 4y ago
        That you can find some examples of a tiny minority slaves doing some highly-skilled jobs does not contradict the statement that it's unlikely that slavery as an institution would be compatible with a modern economy, even ignoring the obvious moral evil it represents. Also, just by the way, we ought to be able to talk without implying that other people have "those tendencies". There is simply no reasonable way a comment about the structure of an industrialized economy can be constructed as "having those tendencies". Appending "slavery = bad" to every comment is tiresome, there is such a thing as context.
      • BurningFrog 4y ago
        I think the point is more that you can't give a slave a truck with a tank of gas and expect to see either again.
        • bluGill 4y ago
          Sure you can - so long as you have a police force that will check up on things once in a while. Or at least you have convinced the slaves that the police force will catch them and life will be worse after they are caught.
          • BurningFrog 4y ago
            Up to a point, sure. But I think there is a point when it makes more sense to just pay the guy a wage, instead of running a big expensive police state controlling everything...
  • barry-cotter 4y ago
    > If middle class-ish people in the West could hire more people for the equivalent of a couple dollars an hour many would absolutely do so. They absolutely could if there was any political desire to allow temporary low skilled immigration. In practice this doesn’t seem to be compatible with democracy. Singapore is not a shining light of labour rights or democracy but their government does have to pay attention to public opinion which is why they use less migrant labor than the Gulf monarchies.
    • ghaff 4y ago
      Certainly. Once you're talking about a massive underclass with no real agency--whether literal slaves or not--there are all sorts of implications for the structure of that society. See SM Stirling's Draka books for example.
• fellellor 4y ago
  What is slavery if not systematically, grossly under compensating someone for their work? Modern industrialised economies have plenty of tools to simulate the effects of slavery. Although without the fun stuff like whipping and other forms of gratuitous cruelty. In its essence slavery is an exchange of labor deal where the buying party has it way better than the selling party.
  • jhgb 4y ago
    > What is slavery if not systematically, grossly under compensating someone for their work? No, it's the notion that you have second-class citizens or even non-citizens with limited legal rights enforced by the state, said limitations usually being in the realm of property rights, personal freedoms, etc. At least that is fairly easy to define, whereas "grossly under compensating someone" is a vastly more nebulous term (who decides what is and isn't "under-compensating"?)
  • HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
    Not even close! At its essence slavery is complete ownership of another person. Whether or not you put that person to "work" is a separate issue.
  • kortilla 4y ago
    > What is slavery if not systematically, grossly under compensating someone for their work? Try starting with the textbook definitions. Pretty much the defining factor of being a slave is that you are owned by someone else and have to follow their orders. You can be highly compensated and still a slave (see the myriad of anecdotes about “kind” slave owners who paid them well).
  • samatman 4y ago
    Want to tell if you're being exploited or enslaved? Leave. If a gang of armed men kidnap, brand, and return you, you're enslaved.