6 ms·

War against Russia? I'm not aware the US or EU declared war against Russia

jessaustin 4y ago
USA didn't declare war against DPRK, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. That's not something we do. However, "serious politicians" have "mistakenly" mentioned that we're at war with Russia for months. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/ukraine-nato-russia-proxy-war.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/ukraine-nato-rus...
- watwut 4y ago
  Just to mention, Russia invaded Ukraine and never declared it war. Russians are also comiting genocide in Ukraine. Russians call it special operation, it is illegal to call it war in Russia. USA offered to fly Ukrainian president to safety. Ukrainian president refused and Ukrainian army started to fight. USA did very decent thing after - supported Ukrainian army with guns. Not a single American Army soldier fought.
  - avgcorrection 4y ago
    > Just to mention, Russia invaded Ukraine and never declared it war. So you agree with jessaustin?
    - watwut 4y ago
      jessaustin makes implications rather then clear statements. I dont think Ukraine situation is in any way similar to Vietnam or Iraq. And it is not case of American aggression at all. No, USA is not in war with Ukraine or Russia. Ukraine is in war with Russia. USA supports Ukraine. Russia does see west in general as ennemies, does actively work to undermine democracy and stability of western countries. Consequently, Ukraine is not just defending itself, but also defending everyone further west. Is that enough answer? -------------- Edit: looking at other comments jessaustin is trying to revert aggressor and victim. Or rather, invent new aggressor, ignore victim interests entirely and make actual aggressor look innocent.
- googlryas 4y ago
  Yes, but in all those instances the US sent troops there with weapons and they fired those weapons at the other side, which is how most people visualize "war". That's not what is happening here. We're sending weapons and money, not men. It would be like saying America entered WWII when they signed the Lend-Lease act, not after Pearl Harbor.
  - jessaustin 4y ago
    USA military and CIA had been present in Korea and Vietnam for years, with little fanfare, before those wars really got going. Their roles in Laos, Indonesia, Iran, Nicaragua, etc. were never acknowledged. They are currently present though unacknowledged in dozens of nations, with the hopes of kicking off future wars for the profit of armaments manufacturers. USA "special forces" have been embedded with various more-or-less-official military units in Donbas for years, during which time UN estimates that 14,000 people died in violent military action including more than 3,000 civilians. Over the same time, various American and western European neo-nazis also found their way to Donbas, forming a convenient cover for the "operators". Americans have been in Ukraine for a long time, and that's not even to mention e.g. Victoria Nuland. This is a stupid argument anyway. Congress has committed to spending Russia's entire annual military budget to fill Ukraine with deadly weapons. That doesn't count the billions we already spent over the last 15 years. A president was impeached because he proposed (without actually doing) a temporary slowdown of the flow of American weapons to Ukraine. Our masters wanted a war, and now they have what they wanted. Very few mammalian Americans want a war, but after twenty years of stupid wars it's clear that the peace we want doesn't matter.
    - googlryas 4y ago
      > Our masters wanted a war, and now they have what they wanted. How does sending weapons to a country encourage another country to attack it? Wouldn't it decrease the chances they attacked it - since it is fairly clear that the Ukraine could not invade Russia. > Very few mammalian Americans want a war As opposed to reptilian Americans? I'm just joking, I assume this is a typo but I can't figure out what it is meant to be. Do Americans actually want peace between the Ukraine and Russia(if it would just mean acceding to Russia's demands)? Granted I live in a fairly liberal area, but I see blue and yellow flags all over the place right now.
JacobThreeThree 4y ago
Every serious person acknowledges that what's going on in Ukraine is a NATO proxy war. Here's Leon Panetta (former Def Sec and CIA Director) saying it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWu7cPPVv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWu7cPPVv0
- trasz 4y ago
  Of course it is - but it’s a defensive proxy war. The aggressor is Russia, not NATO.
sophacles 4y ago
I don't understand this perennial thread of "No one declared it, it's not a war" when armies are trying their hardest to exterminate each other. What makes the magic words "i declare war" by some old buffoon who just wants the children of his nation to die in cruel ways make a magical difference? Seriously - if you look at pictures of the children dismembering each other in Ukraine during ww2 and the children dismembering each other in Ukraine in 2022, the only major differences are fashion and how effective technology lets them be at cruelty. The legalistic bullshit of needing magic words sounds like something the monsters that want dead children say to each other to get a little distance from the fact that the dead children are still their fault.
- watwut 4y ago
  I think that the commenter takes issue with the implications that USA is in war with Russia rather then Russia being in aggressive war against Ukraine. It is popular framing among pro-russia people - trying to frame it as if Ukraine did not mattered at all. Or as if did not even existed.

USA didn't declare war against DPRK, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. That's not something we do. However, "serious politicians" have "mistakenly" mentioned that we're at war with Russia for months. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/ukraine-nato-russia-proxy-war.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/04/ukraine-nato-rus...

watwut 4y ago
Just to mention, Russia invaded Ukraine and never declared it war. Russians are also comiting genocide in Ukraine. Russians call it special operation, it is illegal to call it war in Russia. USA offered to fly Ukrainian president to safety. Ukrainian president refused and Ukrainian army started to fight. USA did very decent thing after - supported Ukrainian army with guns. Not a single American Army soldier fought.
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  > Just to mention, Russia invaded Ukraine and never declared it war. So you agree with jessaustin?
  - watwut 4y ago
    jessaustin makes implications rather then clear statements. I dont think Ukraine situation is in any way similar to Vietnam or Iraq. And it is not case of American aggression at all. No, USA is not in war with Ukraine or Russia. Ukraine is in war with Russia. USA supports Ukraine. Russia does see west in general as ennemies, does actively work to undermine democracy and stability of western countries. Consequently, Ukraine is not just defending itself, but also defending everyone further west. Is that enough answer? -------------- Edit: looking at other comments jessaustin is trying to revert aggressor and victim. Or rather, invent new aggressor, ignore victim interests entirely and make actual aggressor look innocent.
googlryas 4y ago
Yes, but in all those instances the US sent troops there with weapons and they fired those weapons at the other side, which is how most people visualize "war". That's not what is happening here. We're sending weapons and money, not men. It would be like saying America entered WWII when they signed the Lend-Lease act, not after Pearl Harbor.
- jessaustin 4y ago
  USA military and CIA had been present in Korea and Vietnam for years, with little fanfare, before those wars really got going. Their roles in Laos, Indonesia, Iran, Nicaragua, etc. were never acknowledged. They are currently present though unacknowledged in dozens of nations, with the hopes of kicking off future wars for the profit of armaments manufacturers. USA "special forces" have been embedded with various more-or-less-official military units in Donbas for years, during which time UN estimates that 14,000 people died in violent military action including more than 3,000 civilians. Over the same time, various American and western European neo-nazis also found their way to Donbas, forming a convenient cover for the "operators". Americans have been in Ukraine for a long time, and that's not even to mention e.g. Victoria Nuland. This is a stupid argument anyway. Congress has committed to spending Russia's entire annual military budget to fill Ukraine with deadly weapons. That doesn't count the billions we already spent over the last 15 years. A president was impeached because he proposed (without actually doing) a temporary slowdown of the flow of American weapons to Ukraine. Our masters wanted a war, and now they have what they wanted. Very few mammalian Americans want a war, but after twenty years of stupid wars it's clear that the peace we want doesn't matter.
  - googlryas 4y ago
    > Our masters wanted a war, and now they have what they wanted. How does sending weapons to a country encourage another country to attack it? Wouldn't it decrease the chances they attacked it - since it is fairly clear that the Ukraine could not invade Russia. > Very few mammalian Americans want a war As opposed to reptilian Americans? I'm just joking, I assume this is a typo but I can't figure out what it is meant to be. Do Americans actually want peace between the Ukraine and Russia(if it would just mean acceding to Russia's demands)? Granted I live in a fairly liberal area, but I see blue and yellow flags all over the place right now.

JacobThreeThree 4y ago

Every serious person acknowledges that what's going on in Ukraine is a NATO proxy war. Here's Leon Panetta (former Def Sec and CIA Director) saying it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWu7cPPVv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWu7cPPVv0

trasz 4y ago
Of course it is - but it’s a defensive proxy war. The aggressor is Russia, not NATO.

sophacles 4y ago

I don't understand this perennial thread of "No one declared it, it's not a war" when armies are trying their hardest to exterminate each other. What makes the magic words "i declare war" by some old buffoon who just wants the children of his nation to die in cruel ways make a magical difference? Seriously - if you look at pictures of the children dismembering each other in Ukraine during ww2 and the children dismembering each other in Ukraine in 2022, the only major differences are fashion and how effective technology lets them be at cruelty. The legalistic bullshit of needing magic words sounds like something the monsters that want dead children say to each other to get a little distance from the fact that the dead children are still their fault.

watwut 4y ago
I think that the commenter takes issue with the implications that USA is in war with Russia rather then Russia being in aggressive war against Ukraine. It is popular framing among pro-russia people - trying to frame it as if Ukraine did not mattered at all. Or as if did not even existed.