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Well, that's Rust for you. They somehow think that having a boatload of dependencies with nondescript names (smawk, parking_lot_core, serde, clap - I feel like

by fbanon 4y ago

Well, that's Rust for you. They somehow think that having a boatload of dependencies with nondescript names (smawk, parking_lot_core, serde, clap - I feel like I'm having a stroke) is a feature. I'm not even joking.

bowsamic 4y ago
I don't mind the number of dependencies, but I agree that the cutesy naming is ridiculous and obfuscating
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  You're free to create your own project with your own name and have it compete on the free market for dominance. I don't get this criticism at all. Sure, it could be simpler, but it's A. Not your project, so who are you to say how to name it and B. Rust developers clearly understand what they're used for considering they're popular enough to be brought up here. And unless you're actively developing in Rust, why would some other people's choice of naming their projects in a language and tool chain you don't ever plan on using be such a big deal?
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    You can say this about literally any criticism ever. I hate it and it blows chunks. It is the ultimate libertarian way of striking down any discussion: do not criticise, even in any small way, because it's a free market and you can just make another one, so never EVER even THINK of discussing anything. I'm not saying that there should be some kind of totalitarian regime that enforces naming, I'm simply saying that yeah it kinda sucks that Rust devs tend towards cutesy names over ones that convey functionality. This just seems like you're getting weirdly offended for no reason. Not everything is some kind of attack on individual agency. There is absolutely nothing wrong with me remarking on the state of Rust naming. The fact that you are conflating it to be a "big deal", which I never said it was, just seems like bad faith arguing me. This is just not something to get so offended over.
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      > I'm simply saying that yeah it kinda sucks that Rust devs tend towards cutesy names over ones that convey functionality. Are you using Rust? If not, why does it matter what they choose to name their libraries. This is my entire point, you're coming in as an outsider criticizing something that is clearly not a problem to Rust devs. If actual Rust developers are using them to the point where they're popular enough to gain (unwarranted, imo) criticism, then clearly they're working, silly name and all. It's almost as if people care more about what the function a package provides rather than its name.
      - bowsamic 4y ago
        I'm not an outsider, I have used rust before, though not extensively, not that this matters at all. An active rust developer has no more permission to criticise something about the rust ecosystem than someone new to rust
        mynameisvlad 4y ago
        But it does matter. If the people actively using the packages aren't complaining, then there isn't really a problem. You've hyperfocused so much on my "criticism of your criticism" and the permissibility behind it that you chose to ignore the actual criticism I laid down. I'm not continuing this either way since I've said my piece. Maybe step back and actually read my comments rather than focusing on me criticizing your critique. Also, pot calling the kettle black. You spent an entire comment being offended over my critique.
        bowsamic 4y ago
        You probably shouldn't make such inflammatory comments on an account that is directly linked to your professional and personal profiles, it really doesn't look great Also it isn't a criticism of my criticism, it is an assertion that I should not be allowed to criticise at all, which is a totally different thing. Of course I am going to call that out EDIT: I can't reply because rate limited Please calm down. I'm not threatening you. I'm simply surprised that you make such inflammatory and aggressive comments on an account that is so closely tied to your professional life, that is all. I think you should reconsider doing so
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    Don't Rust crates go in a global namespace? In that case using up common or short names is definitely something I get to care about.
- daptaq 4y ago
  At the very least it would be nice if languages could separate the interface from weird (I guess the idea is that they should be fun?) library names.
omni 4y ago
Serde is a common term meaning "serialization/deserialization," seems pretty descript to me.
- jhgb 4y ago
  You're saying it's "a common term", but I'd literally never heard it before a Rust library with this exact name appeared. Isn't this by any chance circular reasoning? That it became "a common term" because of this library? In that case you couldn't justify the name of the library by saying that it was "a common term" at that time.
  - omni 4y ago
    I can assure you this Rust library did not invent the term https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=serde https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=s...
    - jhgb 4y ago
      Sadly all I'm constantly getting is "429. That’s an error."
      - ac29 4y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SerDes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SerDes
        jhgb 4y ago
        This is a different namespace though. Nothing to do with data structures. Also, ends with an 's'.
  - scubbo 4y ago
    My $0.02 - I've heard of it and I've never worked in Rust, though calling it "a common term" seems like a bit of a stretch - I was over 5 years into my career before I encountered it. It's much less common than analogous terms like modem ("modulator-demodulator").
hu3 4y ago
The aggressive replies on this thread. holy s**t. That's what I mean when I say Rust community is toxic here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32105449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32105449
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  Snottily states that the Rust community loves having too many dependencies and that the cutesy names are stroke-inducing. And you think the replies to that are aggressive?
- cillian64 4y ago
  The comment would probably do better if it was phrased more like “Rust projects usually have lots of dependencies, and a lot of them have unhelpful names, and this is bad because XYZ”. This comment isn’t trying to offer constructive criticism or add to the discussion, it is just mocking rust and its users. The tone makes me a lot more likely to downvote it and move on rather than engaging in discussion. For context, I totally agree that rust often ends up with more dependencies than I would like and that crate names are often super unhelpful, but I downvoted the comment.
- fbanon 4y ago
  Agreed. The Rust community took a disappointing direction in the past few years...

by fbanon 4y ago

bowsamic 4y ago

I don't mind the number of dependencies, but I agree that the cutesy naming is ridiculous and obfuscating

mynameisvlad 4y ago
You're free to create your own project with your own name and have it compete on the free market for dominance. I don't get this criticism at all. Sure, it could be simpler, but it's A. Not your project, so who are you to say how to name it and B. Rust developers clearly understand what they're used for considering they're popular enough to be brought up here. And unless you're actively developing in Rust, why would some other people's choice of naming their projects in a language and tool chain you don't ever plan on using be such a big deal?
- bowsamic 4y ago
  You can say this about literally any criticism ever. I hate it and it blows chunks. It is the ultimate libertarian way of striking down any discussion: do not criticise, even in any small way, because it's a free market and you can just make another one, so never EVER even THINK of discussing anything. I'm not saying that there should be some kind of totalitarian regime that enforces naming, I'm simply saying that yeah it kinda sucks that Rust devs tend towards cutesy names over ones that convey functionality. This just seems like you're getting weirdly offended for no reason. Not everything is some kind of attack on individual agency. There is absolutely nothing wrong with me remarking on the state of Rust naming. The fact that you are conflating it to be a "big deal", which I never said it was, just seems like bad faith arguing me. This is just not something to get so offended over.
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    > I'm simply saying that yeah it kinda sucks that Rust devs tend towards cutesy names over ones that convey functionality. Are you using Rust? If not, why does it matter what they choose to name their libraries. This is my entire point, you're coming in as an outsider criticizing something that is clearly not a problem to Rust devs. If actual Rust developers are using them to the point where they're popular enough to gain (unwarranted, imo) criticism, then clearly they're working, silly name and all. It's almost as if people care more about what the function a package provides rather than its name.
    - bowsamic 4y ago
      I'm not an outsider, I have used rust before, though not extensively, not that this matters at all. An active rust developer has no more permission to criticise something about the rust ecosystem than someone new to rust
      - mynameisvlad 4y ago
        But it does matter. If the people actively using the packages aren't complaining, then there isn't really a problem. You've hyperfocused so much on my "criticism of your criticism" and the permissibility behind it that you chose to ignore the actual criticism I laid down. I'm not continuing this either way since I've said my piece. Maybe step back and actually read my comments rather than focusing on me criticizing your critique. Also, pot calling the kettle black. You spent an entire comment being offended over my critique.
        bowsamic 4y ago
        You probably shouldn't make such inflammatory comments on an account that is directly linked to your professional and personal profiles, it really doesn't look great Also it isn't a criticism of my criticism, it is an assertion that I should not be allowed to criticise at all, which is a totally different thing. Of course I am going to call that out EDIT: I can't reply because rate limited Please calm down. I'm not threatening you. I'm simply surprised that you make such inflammatory and aggressive comments on an account that is so closely tied to your professional life, that is all. I think you should reconsider doing so
- saagarjha 4y ago
  Don't Rust crates go in a global namespace? In that case using up common or short names is definitely something I get to care about.
daptaq 4y ago
At the very least it would be nice if languages could separate the interface from weird (I guess the idea is that they should be fun?) library names.

omni 4y ago

Serde is a common term meaning "serialization/deserialization," seems pretty descript to me.

jhgb 4y ago
You're saying it's "a common term", but I'd literally never heard it before a Rust library with this exact name appeared. Isn't this by any chance circular reasoning? That it became "a common term" because of this library? In that case you couldn't justify the name of the library by saying that it was "a common term" at that time.
- omni 4y ago
  I can assure you this Rust library did not invent the term https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=serde https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=s...
  - jhgb 4y ago
    Sadly all I'm constantly getting is "429. That’s an error."
    - ac29 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SerDes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SerDes
      - jhgb 4y ago
        This is a different namespace though. Nothing to do with data structures. Also, ends with an 's'.
- scubbo 4y ago
  My $0.02 - I've heard of it and I've never worked in Rust, though calling it "a common term" seems like a bit of a stretch - I was over 5 years into my career before I encountered it. It's much less common than analogous terms like modem ("modulator-demodulator").

hu3 4y ago

The aggressive replies on this thread. holy s**t. That's what I mean when I say Rust community is toxic here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32105449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32105449

avgcorrection 4y ago
Snottily states that the Rust community loves having too many dependencies and that the cutesy names are stroke-inducing. And you think the replies to that are aggressive?
cillian64 4y ago
The comment would probably do better if it was phrased more like “Rust projects usually have lots of dependencies, and a lot of them have unhelpful names, and this is bad because XYZ”. This comment isn’t trying to offer constructive criticism or add to the discussion, it is just mocking rust and its users. The tone makes me a lot more likely to downvote it and move on rather than engaging in discussion. For context, I totally agree that rust often ends up with more dependencies than I would like and that crate names are often super unhelpful, but I downvoted the comment.
fbanon 4y ago
Agreed. The Rust community took a disappointing direction in the past few years...