5 ms·

The Greek philosoper Hero of Alexandria actually invented something close to a steam engine in the 1st century BE [1]. Whenever I think about "obvious" inventio

The Greek philosoper Hero of Alexandria actually invented something close to a steam engine in the 1st century BE [1]. Whenever I think about "obvious" inventions which happened quite late in our civilization, I remember "The road not taken", a fantastic short story that plays with this idea. [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken_(short_story) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken_(short_stor...

eesmith 4y ago
That's a different sort of steam engine. From the article: > But when we talk of the breakthrough “steam engine” in the eighteenth-century sense, we don’t mean a machine that exploits steam’s expansive, or pushing force. We actually mean a machine that does the exact opposite, exploiting the apparent sucking power that occurs when hot steam is rapidly condensed with a spray of cold water. It’s the relative weight of the atmosphere, compared to the sudden vacuum from condensing steam, that does all the work. This article connects that sort of engine to (among others) Hero of Alexandria’s temple doors, rather than the aeolipile, though suggests that it might have been known to "at least a few aeolipile-users" as a way to fill the aeolipile with water.
- antonhowes 4y ago
  Thank you! It’s extremely gratifying to know that HN readers like yourself do actually go and read the posts. :D
tialaramex 4y ago
Chris Robertson's "O One" has a British man present the Chinese Emperor (well, Emperor of the World, China having conquered the rest of the globe) with his primitive Analytical Engine, a machine which can perform arithmetic. The many human Computers employed in the Emperor's House of Computation are keen that this idea shouldn't go anywhere...
qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
So why did it not win? The answer. Slaves. Slaves in the mines, slaves in the home, slave driving the rowboats and all services. Labour was cheap and plenty, also intelligent - with entrenched "automation" like this, no inventions are actually needed. Which goes to show, that technology stratifyng society strangles itself, by producing a servant class outcompeting all technology. Give it a hundred years and the "natural" order of things seaps into relgion and culture such that to perform science is to dare the gods. PS: There are tons of good alternate history .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Years_of_Rice_and_Salt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Years_of_Rice_and_Salt
- mannykannot 4y ago
  Slavery is a big part of the answer, but Hero's device can not be scaled up to do useful work without consuming vast quantities of fuel, even in comparison to the low standard of efficiency set by Newcomen's engine.
- qsort 4y ago
  Isn't that kind of the other way around? Ignoring the obvious moral question, in a primarily agrarian economy slave labor is useful because it's relatively easy to control and there is no need for specialization. OTOH in an industrialized society you wouldn't want slaves even if you could have them.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    >OTOH in an industrialized society you wouldn't want slaves even if you could have them. Really? Leaving aside the moral issues most associated with slavery specifically, there is a huge demand in modern industrialized society for all sorts of low cost human labor. If middle class-ish people in the West could hire more people for the equivalent of a couple dollars an hour many would absolutely do so.
    - qsort 4y ago
      It's very unlikely that slaves would be able to cover any present-day jobs except very menial service tasks. Cleaning houses, mowing lawns, sure. But you wouldn't even get as far as a taxi/truck driver, which is one of the least qualified jobs today.
Ekaros 4y ago
I wonder what are the characteristics of that sort of engine. Like torque for one? How much power scaled up it could generate? How would you connect sensibly and efficiently anything to it? How to supply water to it for long enough duty cycle? Would this new gold water have effect on efficiency? etc.
lizknope 4y ago
Mr Wizard had a Hero's engine on an episode back in the 80's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_NTifmG8TM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_NTifmG8TM
antonhowes 4y ago
Please read both parts I and II. I specifically addressed various widely-held myths about Hero’s engines, and about aeolipiles.
Redoubts 4y ago
https://eyeofmidas.com/scifi/Turtledove_RoadNotTaken.pdf https://eyeofmidas.com/scifi/Turtledove_RoadNotTaken.pdf https://summerblizzard.tistory.com/87 https://summerblizzard.tistory.com/87 for the curious

eesmith 4y ago

That's a different sort of steam engine. From the article: > But when we talk of the breakthrough “steam engine” in the eighteenth-century sense, we don’t mean a machine that exploits steam’s expansive, or pushing force. We actually mean a machine that does the exact opposite, exploiting the apparent sucking power that occurs when hot steam is rapidly condensed with a spray of cold water. It’s the relative weight of the atmosphere, compared to the sudden vacuum from condensing steam, that does all the work. This article connects that sort of engine to (among others) Hero of Alexandria’s temple doors, rather than the aeolipile, though suggests that it might have been known to "at least a few aeolipile-users" as a way to fill the aeolipile with water.

antonhowes 4y ago
Thank you! It’s extremely gratifying to know that HN readers like yourself do actually go and read the posts. :D

tialaramex 4y ago

Chris Robertson's "O One" has a British man present the Chinese Emperor (well, Emperor of the World, China having conquered the rest of the globe) with his primitive Analytical Engine, a machine which can perform arithmetic. The many human Computers employed in the Emperor's House of Computation are keen that this idea shouldn't go anywhere...

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

So why did it not win? The answer. Slaves. Slaves in the mines, slaves in the home, slave driving the rowboats and all services. Labour was cheap and plenty, also intelligent - with entrenched "automation" like this, no inventions are actually needed. Which goes to show, that technology stratifyng society strangles itself, by producing a servant class outcompeting all technology. Give it a hundred years and the "natural" order of things seaps into relgion and culture such that to perform science is to dare the gods. PS: There are tons of good alternate history .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Years_of_Rice_and_Salt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Years_of_Rice_and_Salt

mannykannot 4y ago
Slavery is a big part of the answer, but Hero's device can not be scaled up to do useful work without consuming vast quantities of fuel, even in comparison to the low standard of efficiency set by Newcomen's engine.
qsort 4y ago
Isn't that kind of the other way around? Ignoring the obvious moral question, in a primarily agrarian economy slave labor is useful because it's relatively easy to control and there is no need for specialization. OTOH in an industrialized society you wouldn't want slaves even if you could have them.
- ghaff 4y ago
  >OTOH in an industrialized society you wouldn't want slaves even if you could have them. Really? Leaving aside the moral issues most associated with slavery specifically, there is a huge demand in modern industrialized society for all sorts of low cost human labor. If middle class-ish people in the West could hire more people for the equivalent of a couple dollars an hour many would absolutely do so.
  - qsort 4y ago
    It's very unlikely that slaves would be able to cover any present-day jobs except very menial service tasks. Cleaning houses, mowing lawns, sure. But you wouldn't even get as far as a taxi/truck driver, which is one of the least qualified jobs today.

Ekaros 4y ago

I wonder what are the characteristics of that sort of engine. Like torque for one? How much power scaled up it could generate? How would you connect sensibly and efficiently anything to it? How to supply water to it for long enough duty cycle? Would this new gold water have effect on efficiency? etc.

lizknope 4y ago

Mr Wizard had a Hero's engine on an episode back in the 80's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_NTifmG8TM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_NTifmG8TM

antonhowes 4y ago

Please read both parts I and II. I specifically addressed various widely-held myths about Hero’s engines, and about aeolipiles.

Redoubts 4y ago

https://eyeofmidas.com/scifi/Turtledove_RoadNotTaken.pdf https://eyeofmidas.com/scifi/Turtledove_RoadNotTaken.pdf https://summerblizzard.tistory.com/87 https://summerblizzard.tistory.com/87 for the curious