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The funniest thing is - Germany was repeatedly warned by Eastern European states that this (literally this) will happen if they continue to build Nord Stream 1

by ajuc 4y ago

The funniest thing is - Germany was repeatedly warned by Eastern European states that this (literally this) will happen if they continue to build Nord Stream 1 and then Nord Stream 2 and try to "fix" Russia by trade. Russian government already poisoned Ukrainian presidential candidate in 2004. Killed opposition and journalists both in Russia and in EU. Invaded 2 countries (Chechnia and Georgia - I don't even count Lithuania cause it was technically USSR) and committed war crimes (especially in Chechnia). And Germany just ignored this cause cheap gas and "they will surely change if we just give them money". Like how dumb can you be? Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Ukraine, Romania and probably others warned Germany and the rest of EU about this for decades. Polish president in 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia said "Today Georgia, tomorrow Ukraine, and then, perhaps, my country - Poland". It wasn't some genius foresight- this was mainstream opinion in Poland and many other EE states for over a decade already. We warned about Russia using the pipelines for blackmail and about their ambitions to recreate USSR against the will of the people in post-communist states. By 2010 Russia already shut down gas for various EE states on several occasions to blackmail or punish them. Germany knew this and just ignored it. Probably cause it "couldn't happen to Germany and fuck EE". In 2014 Russia invaded Ukraine for the first time and annexed Crimea. Also supported dictator Assad in murdering his own citizens and used hybrid warfare on EU by helping him push refuges to EU which created a huge political crisis. Germany knew this and still sucked that gas like there's no tommorow and continued to build Nord Stream 2. Last year Russian agents blew up a big ammo warehouse in Czech Republic. Germany still continued with Nord Stream, cause you know, who cares about Czech Republic (their ally in NATO and EU). Oh, BTW - Germany also sold weapons to Russia and helped them train soldiers all through that time. They were supposed to stop after 2014 but they didn't. All the warnings and pleas to stop doing business with Russia and especially to stop sending them weapons and increasing energy dependency were dismissed by Germany (and other EU states to a lesser degree) as "russophobic" because these countries were "understandeably traumatized" and "didn't understand modern global politics". Basically Germany treated us like dumb kids while commiting slow extended suicide. It's mind-boggling how a big European state like Germany with big ambitions and supposedly independent media could be so ignorant for 3 decades with nobody in the country taking the warnings seriously.

Tozen 4y ago
Good points. Germany has long been warned from so many sources (both domestic and international) that something like this situation could happen, yet they ran full speed and head first into it anyway.
iammjm 4y ago
I very much agree with this post. Also, don't forget about Russia's decade-long war against democracies via bot farms, support for populist parties, bribes, and assassinations (even on German on British soil). Many German politicians behaved like arrogant morons and ended up drinking their own cool aid. Now they are trying to minimize the damage by throwing Ukrainians under the bus. They find the war annoying, because it disturbs their business as usual. I feel like they have more of a problem with Ukraine than with Russia, because Ukraine is putting up a fight and complicating Germany's relations with Russia. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised as this is the country that started both world wars and let Hitler just do his thing as the Holocaust unfolded. Some of those people are still alive. I live in Germany by the way.
qayxc 4y ago
> It's mind-boggling how a big European state like Germany with big ambitions and supposedly independent media could be so ignorant for 3 decades with nobody in the country taking the warnings seriously. That's a warped perception. There has been a huge controversy (also in the media), it was the government and primarily chancellor Merkel who pushed for a adopting a soft line with Russia. Critique was small since the Left traditionally sided with Russia, the Right was very sympathetic to authoritarian regimes in general, and the libertarians saw nothing but economic opportunities (cheap resources). Since military strength hasn't been a focus ever since the early 90s, economic ties were seen as both an effective measure to keep peace and an advantage to the domestic industries. EE states have of course their own concerns, but let's be real here: every country is first and foremost focusing on their own interests and tends to ignore or downplay the interests of others, especially "small fish" like states that have little economical and political weight. Sounds harsh, but that's the reality of politics everywhere and not particularly surprising.
- ajuc 4y ago

by ajuc 4y ago

Tozen 4y ago

Good points. Germany has long been warned from so many sources (both domestic and international) that something like this situation could happen, yet they ran full speed and head first into it anyway.

iammjm 4y ago

I very much agree with this post. Also, don't forget about Russia's decade-long war against democracies via bot farms, support for populist parties, bribes, and assassinations (even on German on British soil). Many German politicians behaved like arrogant morons and ended up drinking their own cool aid. Now they are trying to minimize the damage by throwing Ukrainians under the bus. They find the war annoying, because it disturbs their business as usual. I feel like they have more of a problem with Ukraine than with Russia, because Ukraine is putting up a fight and complicating Germany's relations with Russia. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised as this is the country that started both world wars and let Hitler just do his thing as the Holocaust unfolded. Some of those people are still alive. I live in Germany by the way.

qayxc 4y ago

> It's mind-boggling how a big European state like Germany with big ambitions and supposedly independent media could be so ignorant for 3 decades with nobody in the country taking the warnings seriously. That's a warped perception. There has been a huge controversy (also in the media), it was the government and primarily chancellor Merkel who pushed for a adopting a soft line with Russia. Critique was small since the Left traditionally sided with Russia, the Right was very sympathetic to authoritarian regimes in general, and the libertarians saw nothing but economic opportunities (cheap resources). Since military strength hasn't been a focus ever since the early 90s, economic ties were seen as both an effective measure to keep peace and an advantage to the domestic industries. EE states have of course their own concerns, but let's be real here: every country is first and foremost focusing on their own interests and tends to ignore or downplay the interests of others, especially "small fish" like states that have little economical and political weight. Sounds harsh, but that's the reality of politics everywhere and not particularly surprising.

ajuc 4y ago