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> The car also boasts a “safety cell seven times stronger than steel,” for those worried that its unique design may not hold up well in an accident Isn't that

> The car also boasts a “safety cell seven times stronger than steel,” for those worried that its unique design may not hold up well in an accident Isn't that the opposite of what you want? Like... crumple zones? > there’s also an option to put extra panels on the hood and hatch to add range Sounds dubious. Can't imagine you're getting much power from an extra panel on the hood over the course of a drive? Website also states that me, living in boston, driving 40 miles a day would only need to charge 6 times a year? There's just no way that's accurate. Deeply skeptical of this one. Though I wouldn't hate a 20k electric triwheel car that didn't try to force the solar gimmick.

IXxXI 4y ago
> Isn't that the opposite of what you want? Like... crumple zones? If its the same design as the original failed aptera the shell is carbon fiber. There is a big question as to who is funding them as the original aptera motors had the same design & went bankrupt in 2011.
iancmceachern 4y ago
Yeah, that's nonsense.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Because of the downvotes I will explain my statement. The car has "a safety cell 7 times stronger than steel". That makes no sense. The strength of a physical object is a combination of the strength of its material(s), the geometry it's made into, and the joining method used to connect the parts. An object is not stronger than steel, a material is. Saying an object is stronger than steel means nothing.
pengaru 4y ago
> Sounds dubious. Can't imagine you're getting much power from an extra panel on the hood over the course of a drive? It's not primarily about charging while driving, it's increasing the range added from charge time while parked under the sun. Think parked all day while at work. It will increase the range of your commute to/from work, assuming it can charge in sunlight throughout the workday.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Shared404 4y ago
  > assuming it can charge in sunlight throughout the workday. That seems like a very bad assumption to me.
  - qqqwerty 4y ago
    It seems like a perfectly reasonable assumption. The vast majority of parking spaces in existence are uncovered. And in cases where covered parking exists, there are usually uncovered options (for example in most parking garages that have a top uncovered floor, that floor tends to be the least occupied).
    - Shared404 4y ago
      I was more referring to weather. I love the idea of this vehicle, and if it performs as advertised I could see myself using it. However - I wouldn't want to bank on it charging during work to extend it's range every single workday. Overcast and rainy days happen almost everywhere, at least some times. Or I could be misunderstanding something about solar panels - do they continue to charge even without direct visible light? I don't know much about them.
      - pengaru 4y ago
        > Or I could be misunderstanding something about solar panels - do they continue to charge even without direct visible light? I don't know much about them. They diminish output in proportion to the amount of light. In a charging situation where you require at least a certain voltage to push anything into the batteries, I presume it will just stop charging well before the panels are 100% dark.
      - Schroedingersat 4y ago
        Their calculations include corrections for capacity factors due to weather. They are probahly a little generous about traffic conditions in some areas though. 40 miles at constant 30mph is very different to stop start hitting 30mph each block or to constant 70mph. A 100kWh battery is sufficient to average available energy for a 700W panel out over several weeks in summer at lower latitudes, and a month or so in worse conditions. The idea seems untenable until you consider that it's more like a big ebike than a car. It weighs a fifth as much as a tesla and has under a third of the air resistance.
jonas21 4y ago
> Can't imagine you're getting much power from an extra panel on the hood over the course of a drive? It's not just over the course of a drive. It's charging while your car is parked out in the sun all day long. > Website also states that me, living in boston, driving 40 miles a day would only need to charge 6 times a year? There's just no way that's accurate. Back of the envelope, that seems reasonable enough: 700 W * 12 hours/day * 2/pi (to account for sun angle over the course of the day) = ~5.4kWh/day. Cut that in half to account for lousy Boston weather, and you get 2.7 kWh/day. If they can get 10 mi/kWh (a Tesla gets ~4 mi/kWh), then that's 27 miles/day, which leaves you 13 miles/day short. Their battery provides 1000 miles of range, so you'd need to charge every 76 days, or about 5 times per year.
- bragr 4y ago
  That still seems optimistic to me. These are non articulated panels, so I'd expect to see decent charging rates around local solar noon, but steep drop offs before and after, not to mention that any part of the panel being in shade will totally kill the efficiency.
- breput 4y ago
  There is no way that rooftop area is even as large as a standard solar panel (say 200 ft²). Even the most efficient panel is no more than 350W, so you're cutting your "700 W" more than in half right off the bat. Discounting less efficient cells, road dirt, and non-perpendicular angles and we'll be generous and say 300 W. 12 hours/day is the maximum possible solar duration so you really need to cut that in half to account for a full year on Earth. So we're down to 1 kWh/day and realistically much less if you happen to park under a tree or a bird poops on your roof. That will hopefully get you to a charging station but not much further.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    There's several square meters on there, and they could be using high efficiency panels. 700W is perfectly reasonable. I have a 200W panel acting as shade over a tricycle which is much smaller and can easily charge a 1kWh battery in a day..
wisty 4y ago
These 3-wheeled "legally a motorbike" car things are always an unpopular niche. Fantastic efficiency and a low price, but most people would rather shell out for a full-sized car. They're legally motorbikes, so they are often not as safe as cars. This one boasts "eggshell" composites for crash safety, but often the lack of mass makes it hard to make these as safe as a heavier vehicle. 2 seats. It seems to have a lot of storage (25 cubic feet) but I bet it handles very badly if it's weighed down. I can't find any mention of performance. I bet it's relying a lot on the high low-end torque of electric motors, and aerodynamic design at high speeds, and I wouldn't be surprised if it still handles quite slowly. I found a claim somewhere that it's over 99mph, which isn't exactly stunning. There's already plenty of 3-wheeled EVs, the SARIT, ElectraMeccanica Solo, Spirtus EV as well as this one - https://electricautonomy.ca/2021/05/10/electric-three-wheeled-vehicles/ https://electricautonomy.ca/2021/05/10/electric-three-wheele... These things never do that well. It's not because they're a terrible idea, they just have a lot of compromises. Of course, if conventional cars are too expensive (either the high upfront cost of an EV, or the high running costs of a gas guzzler) then it does make them a little more attractive. Every time gas goes up, you see a bunch of people driving motorbikes or scooters to work to save money. Something that's legally a scooter but has a nice canopy could make a bit more sense, but it rarely seems to catch on.
- incompatible 4y ago
  Where I live, having a license to drive a car doesn't give you a license to ride a motorcycle. You have to go through whole stages of training/certification.
  - Kon-Peki 4y ago
    That's the same where I live, but there are plenty of motorcycle learn-to-ride classes that cost maybe $200 and provide the motorcycle. On the last day of the course, a person from the state comes by, supervises the testing, and (if you pass) signs the paperwork to get your license. It's about as easy as it can be; if you want this Aptera thing a motorcycle license is not a barrier. What concerns me more is that they have their factory in Carlsbad, CA. I don't think there are too many worse places to put a factory if you have a price point to meet, and I doubt that there is any space to expand.
14 4y ago
My electrician friend just told me the other day that the sun very conveniently produces a 1000w/square meter at high noon. Solar panels have an efficiency of around 20% give or take. That is in direct sunlight at high noon. So at peak time of day you can produce about 200w/square meter of solar panel. That’s not a whole lot of energy so adding extra panel to the hood won’t yield a lot of energy but I guess every bit helps.
MrRiddle 4y ago
> Isn't that the opposite of what you want? Like... crumple zones? Well, no. You have those zones + extremely strong cell. [0] https://youtu.be/TJzZ7-Od6KY https://youtu.be/TJzZ7-Od6KY
waldothedog 4y ago
Re: crumple zones. I believe Smart cars feature a similar concept, most of the car is sacrificed on impact—the whole vehicle is a crumple zone—except the the two seats embedded in a tiny roll cage

IXxXI 4y ago

> Isn't that the opposite of what you want? Like... crumple zones? If its the same design as the original failed aptera the shell is carbon fiber. There is a big question as to who is funding them as the original aptera motors had the same design & went bankrupt in 2011.

iancmceachern 4y ago

Yeah, that's nonsense.

iancmceachern 4y ago
Because of the downvotes I will explain my statement. The car has "a safety cell 7 times stronger than steel". That makes no sense. The strength of a physical object is a combination of the strength of its material(s), the geometry it's made into, and the joining method used to connect the parts. An object is not stronger than steel, a material is. Saying an object is stronger than steel means nothing.

pengaru 4y ago

> Sounds dubious. Can't imagine you're getting much power from an extra panel on the hood over the course of a drive? It's not primarily about charging while driving, it's increasing the range added from charge time while parked under the sun. Think parked all day while at work. It will increase the range of your commute to/from work, assuming it can charge in sunlight throughout the workday.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Shared404 4y ago
> assuming it can charge in sunlight throughout the workday. That seems like a very bad assumption to me.
- qqqwerty 4y ago
  It seems like a perfectly reasonable assumption. The vast majority of parking spaces in existence are uncovered. And in cases where covered parking exists, there are usually uncovered options (for example in most parking garages that have a top uncovered floor, that floor tends to be the least occupied).
  - Shared404 4y ago
    I was more referring to weather. I love the idea of this vehicle, and if it performs as advertised I could see myself using it. However - I wouldn't want to bank on it charging during work to extend it's range every single workday. Overcast and rainy days happen almost everywhere, at least some times. Or I could be misunderstanding something about solar panels - do they continue to charge even without direct visible light? I don't know much about them.
    - pengaru 4y ago
      > Or I could be misunderstanding something about solar panels - do they continue to charge even without direct visible light? I don't know much about them. They diminish output in proportion to the amount of light. In a charging situation where you require at least a certain voltage to push anything into the batteries, I presume it will just stop charging well before the panels are 100% dark.
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      Their calculations include corrections for capacity factors due to weather. They are probahly a little generous about traffic conditions in some areas though. 40 miles at constant 30mph is very different to stop start hitting 30mph each block or to constant 70mph. A 100kWh battery is sufficient to average available energy for a 700W panel out over several weeks in summer at lower latitudes, and a month or so in worse conditions. The idea seems untenable until you consider that it's more like a big ebike than a car. It weighs a fifth as much as a tesla and has under a third of the air resistance.

jonas21 4y ago

> Can't imagine you're getting much power from an extra panel on the hood over the course of a drive? It's not just over the course of a drive. It's charging while your car is parked out in the sun all day long. > Website also states that me, living in boston, driving 40 miles a day would only need to charge 6 times a year? There's just no way that's accurate. Back of the envelope, that seems reasonable enough: 700 W * 12 hours/day * 2/pi (to account for sun angle over the course of the day) = ~5.4kWh/day. Cut that in half to account for lousy Boston weather, and you get 2.7 kWh/day. If they can get 10 mi/kWh (a Tesla gets ~4 mi/kWh), then that's 27 miles/day, which leaves you 13 miles/day short. Their battery provides 1000 miles of range, so you'd need to charge every 76 days, or about 5 times per year.

bragr 4y ago
That still seems optimistic to me. These are non articulated panels, so I'd expect to see decent charging rates around local solar noon, but steep drop offs before and after, not to mention that any part of the panel being in shade will totally kill the efficiency.
breput 4y ago
There is no way that rooftop area is even as large as a standard solar panel (say 200 ft²). Even the most efficient panel is no more than 350W, so you're cutting your "700 W" more than in half right off the bat. Discounting less efficient cells, road dirt, and non-perpendicular angles and we'll be generous and say 300 W. 12 hours/day is the maximum possible solar duration so you really need to cut that in half to account for a full year on Earth. So we're down to 1 kWh/day and realistically much less if you happen to park under a tree or a bird poops on your roof. That will hopefully get you to a charging station but not much further.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  There's several square meters on there, and they could be using high efficiency panels. 700W is perfectly reasonable. I have a 200W panel acting as shade over a tricycle which is much smaller and can easily charge a 1kWh battery in a day..

wisty 4y ago

These 3-wheeled "legally a motorbike" car things are always an unpopular niche. Fantastic efficiency and a low price, but most people would rather shell out for a full-sized car. They're legally motorbikes, so they are often not as safe as cars. This one boasts "eggshell" composites for crash safety, but often the lack of mass makes it hard to make these as safe as a heavier vehicle. 2 seats. It seems to have a lot of storage (25 cubic feet) but I bet it handles very badly if it's weighed down. I can't find any mention of performance. I bet it's relying a lot on the high low-end torque of electric motors, and aerodynamic design at high speeds, and I wouldn't be surprised if it still handles quite slowly. I found a claim somewhere that it's over 99mph, which isn't exactly stunning. There's already plenty of 3-wheeled EVs, the SARIT, ElectraMeccanica Solo, Spirtus EV as well as this one - https://electricautonomy.ca/2021/05/10/electric-three-wheeled-vehicles/ https://electricautonomy.ca/2021/05/10/electric-three-wheele... These things never do that well. It's not because they're a terrible idea, they just have a lot of compromises. Of course, if conventional cars are too expensive (either the high upfront cost of an EV, or the high running costs of a gas guzzler) then it does make them a little more attractive. Every time gas goes up, you see a bunch of people driving motorbikes or scooters to work to save money. Something that's legally a scooter but has a nice canopy could make a bit more sense, but it rarely seems to catch on.

incompatible 4y ago
Where I live, having a license to drive a car doesn't give you a license to ride a motorcycle. You have to go through whole stages of training/certification.
- Kon-Peki 4y ago
  That's the same where I live, but there are plenty of motorcycle learn-to-ride classes that cost maybe $200 and provide the motorcycle. On the last day of the course, a person from the state comes by, supervises the testing, and (if you pass) signs the paperwork to get your license. It's about as easy as it can be; if you want this Aptera thing a motorcycle license is not a barrier. What concerns me more is that they have their factory in Carlsbad, CA. I don't think there are too many worse places to put a factory if you have a price point to meet, and I doubt that there is any space to expand.

14 4y ago

My electrician friend just told me the other day that the sun very conveniently produces a 1000w/square meter at high noon. Solar panels have an efficiency of around 20% give or take. That is in direct sunlight at high noon. So at peak time of day you can produce about 200w/square meter of solar panel. That’s not a whole lot of energy so adding extra panel to the hood won’t yield a lot of energy but I guess every bit helps.

MrRiddle 4y ago

> Isn't that the opposite of what you want? Like... crumple zones? Well, no. You have those zones + extremely strong cell. [0] https://youtu.be/TJzZ7-Od6KY https://youtu.be/TJzZ7-Od6KY

waldothedog 4y ago

Re: crumple zones. I believe Smart cars feature a similar concept, most of the car is sacrificed on impact—the whole vehicle is a crumple zone—except the the two seats embedded in a tiny roll cage