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Fortunately I didn't ascribe or presume any such thing. > Those who seek to base power on democratic principles, for the maximum number and good, have at least

Fortunately I didn't ascribe or presume any such thing. > Those who seek to base power on democratic principles, for the maximum number and good, have at least a more altruistic objective to their credit. Those who seek power within ostensibly democratic systems aren't basing power on those systems though, they're trying to gain power by the means available to them. And those who claim they are out to do good with power are deserving of no particular credit for it.

dredmorbius 4y ago
You did: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103825 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103825 (https://archive.ph/qJQFO https://archive.ph/qJQFO) We can look to what the past accomplishments (consistent with present actions), and stated goals are. Many see significant differences. Blair said it well: “The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?” https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8327593-the-party-seeks-power-entirely-for-its-own-sake-we https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8327593-the-party-seeks-pow... Where actions are power-seeking and rationales, justifications, and/or inspirations are grossly inconsistent, Blair's description seems to fit.
- bigDinosaur 4y ago
  Blair being Orwell. It amused me to think of Tony Blair saying what you quoted though.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  No, I did not: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103825 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103825 I never "ascribed it to any one faction", nor did I "presume all factions seeking power are uniform and unified". You may retract your false assertion and furnish me with an apology at your earliest convenience. > Where actions are power-seeking and rationales, justifications, and/or inspirations are grossly inconsistent, Blair's description seems to fit. And we can certainly look back over history to show that governments, including allegedly "democratic" governments, and corporations and the wealthy who have lied and deceived and conspired to commit atrocities and crimes, wars, coups, invasions, genocides, slavery, and plundering others of their wealth and natural resources. It's not the carpenter who wonders why her business has to shut down or the dad wondering why his 6 year old may not go to school that society needs protecting from. It's the people who lie to go to war for oil and arms dealers.

dredmorbius 4y ago

You did: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103825 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103825 (https://archive.ph/qJQFO https://archive.ph/qJQFO) We can look to what the past accomplishments (consistent with present actions), and stated goals are. Many see significant differences. Blair said it well: “The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?” https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8327593-the-party-seeks-power-entirely-for-its-own-sake-we https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8327593-the-party-seeks-pow... Where actions are power-seeking and rationales, justifications, and/or inspirations are grossly inconsistent, Blair's description seems to fit.

bigDinosaur 4y ago
Blair being Orwell. It amused me to think of Tony Blair saying what you quoted though.
throwawaylinux 4y ago
No, I did not: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103825 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32103825 I never "ascribed it to any one faction", nor did I "presume all factions seeking power are uniform and unified". You may retract your false assertion and furnish me with an apology at your earliest convenience. > Where actions are power-seeking and rationales, justifications, and/or inspirations are grossly inconsistent, Blair's description seems to fit. And we can certainly look back over history to show that governments, including allegedly "democratic" governments, and corporations and the wealthy who have lied and deceived and conspired to commit atrocities and crimes, wars, coups, invasions, genocides, slavery, and plundering others of their wealth and natural resources. It's not the carpenter who wonders why her business has to shut down or the dad wondering why his 6 year old may not go to school that society needs protecting from. It's the people who lie to go to war for oil and arms dealers.