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nobody prevents you to use mozilla certificates, you do what you want with your love and dependency on mozilla i want americans to mind their own business inst

nobody prevents you to use mozilla certificates, you do what you want with your love and dependency on mozilla i want americans to mind their own business instead of trying to lobby in both EU/Asia by impersonating identities like with this .eu domain, what a trustworthy behavior btw ;) > Cool. I trust the engineers at Mozilla far more than the politicians in EU. > You can’t mandate or legislate security from the parliament. It takes hard work, skill, education, experience, luck and visibility. nobody said nor want that, you should read the original articles instead of this propagandized website

randomhodler84 4y ago
I think you will find many global corps are actually multinational and have presence and thus effected by braindead laws coming out of the EU. We live on a shared internet plane, we cannot let EU do stupid things that break the internet. You may wish to look at restrictive internet legislation by countries is an attack on the world. It’s not US corp vs EU politicians. It’s EU politicians against earth internet users.
- Shadonototra 4y ago
  voted by europeans nobody voted for mozilla, they hold their position by selling their userbase to google if that's what you want to trust, be it, trust them we should have alternatives for the people who do not want to trust such entity doing shady things like political interference in foreign countries > We live on a shared internet plane another reason to not trust an entity that is selling its userbase to the most evil company on the internet and is also selling ads to people's browser ;) your avidity made you loose all sight, you also lack critical thinking
  - randomhodler84 4y ago
    Avidity is a strange word, I don’t think I have ever seen it before. It exists in English, but it is a French loan word. I believe your perspective is one of someone in France. I am personally located in NY, but cannot vote. I have not been able to vote for over a decade in multiple countries now, and don’t really believe in it anymore. I don’t really care if every EU citizen voted to make math illegal. While there is sanity elsewhere, and an internet exists, we can route around the madness.
    - Shadonototra 4y ago
      I am not French, but i read a lot, i like nice words and their etymology Nourishing yourself from multiple cultures would help you a lot developing critical thinking You are stuck defending mozilla no matter what, fanboyism gets you nowhere, it makes you blind > I don’t really care if every EU citizen voted to make math illegal. While there is sanity elsewhere, and an internet exists, we can route around the madness. You'll remember that when times will make you want to go back in time and hope for an alternative path
      - randomhodler84 4y ago
        Buddy, you have accused me of lacking critical thinking twice. I believe you are projecting. Critical thinkers generally don’t reduce an argument to “evil corps”. I’m intrigued by why I would want to go back in time?
        Shadonototra 4y ago
        I never said i am a critical thinker, i said you lack critical thinking Maybe i perceive wrong, maybe you perceive right, you tell me > I’m intrigued by why I would want to go back in time? Read between the lines, here it's me projecting, i vow apocalypse and destruction
        randomhodler84 4y ago
        After seeing The last human - Kurzgesagt https://youtu.be/LEENEFaVUzU https://youtu.be/LEENEFaVUzU and realizing that for all Of human history we have though it was the end - and actually it’s more likely that as the first few billion humans we will be the source of fascination for many generations to come. Our digital record will be preserved and relentlessly studied. Maybe our thread here will be a footnote in a hologram in a few millennia.
        Shadonototra 4y ago
        we are not worth being mentioned in times of tomorrow, we barely are filler content a shitty experiment that kills itself; selfish; racist; doesn't want humankind to transcend, instead wants to suck everything for their own very self
- xg15 4y ago
  Actually, it very much is EU politicians against US politicians thanks to the CLOUD act. US already has the power to force Mozilla to include whatever root certs they want.
  - tzs 4y ago
    People tend to think that the CLOUD Act did a lot more than it actually did. The CLOUD Act did two things. First, it amended the Stored Communications Act (SCA) to clarify whether requests issued under the SCA were more like warrants or more like subpoenas. Roughly, a warrant authorizes law enforcement to do something they normally would not be allowed to do, like search a place or seize something. A subpoena authorizes law enforcement to make someone else do something, like make someone to give law enforcement a copy of a document that is under that person's control. This didn't expand any US government powers. It just clarified what existing power applied when asking for data. In particular it had nothing to do with asserting US jurisdiction extraterritorially, which is what a lot of people seem to think it was about. Second, it made it easier for the US to enter into agreements to share data with foreign governments. Previously this had to be done through something called a "mutual legal assistance treaty" (MLAT). The CLOUD Act authorized the executive branch to make data sharing agreements, which is much more streamlined but also has much less oversight. There was nothing really controversial about the first part. Pretty much every major country claims similar powers to require people in their country to turn over documents to the government as part of criminal investigations. The controversial part was the second part. Many felt that it would allow the government to easily enter into data sharing agreements to get data without needing a subpoena or warrant, thus bypassing the courts and so effectively stripping away Fourth Amendment rights.
    - xg15 4y ago
      Thanks a lot for the in-depth explanation. I admit, I didn't know a lot of the context, in particular the clarification between warrant and subpoena. > This didn't expand any US government powers. It just clarified what existing power applied when asking for data. In particular it had nothing to do with asserting US jurisdiction extraterritorially, which is what a lot of people seem to think it was about. Not a lawyer or expert in that area, but my understanding why specifically people in the EU were so upset about it (including ECJ judges apparently) was that this effectively did extend US jurisdiction - simply by virtue of US companies being active internationally, specifically tech companies. The overwhelming part of all internet activities in the EU are facillitated through US companies (or local subsidiaries of them). This includes a large part of intra-EU activities. So if one german citizen writes another german citizen an email, chances are very high that email will be stored on a Google server - or at least on a server of a german subsidiary of Google. This makes the CLOUD act relevant to EU citizens, even though technically, the obligations of Google under it are a purely domestic affair. So if the CLOUD act gives US agencies the power to subpoena Google to retrieve data about non-US citizens - while Google is effectively running large part of the internet for other countries - then that does feel a bit like extension of jurisdiction. (It technically isn't, and to my knowledge the ECJ wasn't arguing that it was. The ECJ simply argued that Google's obligations under the CLOUD act are incompatible with Google's obligations under the GDPR. So something's got to give) Going back to the beginning of the thread, I have to admit though, I have no idea if the CLOUD act would give agencies the power to force inclusion of certain root certs. So I take that back.

randomhodler84 4y ago

I think you will find many global corps are actually multinational and have presence and thus effected by braindead laws coming out of the EU. We live on a shared internet plane, we cannot let EU do stupid things that break the internet. You may wish to look at restrictive internet legislation by countries is an attack on the world. It’s not US corp vs EU politicians. It’s EU politicians against earth internet users.

Shadonototra 4y ago
voted by europeans nobody voted for mozilla, they hold their position by selling their userbase to google if that's what you want to trust, be it, trust them we should have alternatives for the people who do not want to trust such entity doing shady things like political interference in foreign countries > We live on a shared internet plane another reason to not trust an entity that is selling its userbase to the most evil company on the internet and is also selling ads to people's browser ;) your avidity made you loose all sight, you also lack critical thinking
- randomhodler84 4y ago
  Avidity is a strange word, I don’t think I have ever seen it before. It exists in English, but it is a French loan word. I believe your perspective is one of someone in France. I am personally located in NY, but cannot vote. I have not been able to vote for over a decade in multiple countries now, and don’t really believe in it anymore. I don’t really care if every EU citizen voted to make math illegal. While there is sanity elsewhere, and an internet exists, we can route around the madness.
  - Shadonototra 4y ago
    I am not French, but i read a lot, i like nice words and their etymology Nourishing yourself from multiple cultures would help you a lot developing critical thinking You are stuck defending mozilla no matter what, fanboyism gets you nowhere, it makes you blind > I don’t really care if every EU citizen voted to make math illegal. While there is sanity elsewhere, and an internet exists, we can route around the madness. You'll remember that when times will make you want to go back in time and hope for an alternative path
    - randomhodler84 4y ago
      Buddy, you have accused me of lacking critical thinking twice. I believe you are projecting. Critical thinkers generally don’t reduce an argument to “evil corps”. I’m intrigued by why I would want to go back in time?
      - Shadonototra 4y ago
        I never said i am a critical thinker, i said you lack critical thinking Maybe i perceive wrong, maybe you perceive right, you tell me > I’m intrigued by why I would want to go back in time? Read between the lines, here it's me projecting, i vow apocalypse and destruction
        randomhodler84 4y ago
        After seeing The last human - Kurzgesagt https://youtu.be/LEENEFaVUzU https://youtu.be/LEENEFaVUzU and realizing that for all Of human history we have though it was the end - and actually it’s more likely that as the first few billion humans we will be the source of fascination for many generations to come. Our digital record will be preserved and relentlessly studied. Maybe our thread here will be a footnote in a hologram in a few millennia.
        Shadonototra 4y ago
        we are not worth being mentioned in times of tomorrow, we barely are filler content a shitty experiment that kills itself; selfish; racist; doesn't want humankind to transcend, instead wants to suck everything for their own very self
xg15 4y ago
Actually, it very much is EU politicians against US politicians thanks to the CLOUD act. US already has the power to force Mozilla to include whatever root certs they want.
- tzs 4y ago
  People tend to think that the CLOUD Act did a lot more than it actually did. The CLOUD Act did two things. First, it amended the Stored Communications Act (SCA) to clarify whether requests issued under the SCA were more like warrants or more like subpoenas. Roughly, a warrant authorizes law enforcement to do something they normally would not be allowed to do, like search a place or seize something. A subpoena authorizes law enforcement to make someone else do something, like make someone to give law enforcement a copy of a document that is under that person's control. This didn't expand any US government powers. It just clarified what existing power applied when asking for data. In particular it had nothing to do with asserting US jurisdiction extraterritorially, which is what a lot of people seem to think it was about. Second, it made it easier for the US to enter into agreements to share data with foreign governments. Previously this had to be done through something called a "mutual legal assistance treaty" (MLAT). The CLOUD Act authorized the executive branch to make data sharing agreements, which is much more streamlined but also has much less oversight. There was nothing really controversial about the first part. Pretty much every major country claims similar powers to require people in their country to turn over documents to the government as part of criminal investigations. The controversial part was the second part. Many felt that it would allow the government to easily enter into data sharing agreements to get data without needing a subpoena or warrant, thus bypassing the courts and so effectively stripping away Fourth Amendment rights.
  - xg15 4y ago
    Thanks a lot for the in-depth explanation. I admit, I didn't know a lot of the context, in particular the clarification between warrant and subpoena. > This didn't expand any US government powers. It just clarified what existing power applied when asking for data. In particular it had nothing to do with asserting US jurisdiction extraterritorially, which is what a lot of people seem to think it was about. Not a lawyer or expert in that area, but my understanding why specifically people in the EU were so upset about it (including ECJ judges apparently) was that this effectively did extend US jurisdiction - simply by virtue of US companies being active internationally, specifically tech companies. The overwhelming part of all internet activities in the EU are facillitated through US companies (or local subsidiaries of them). This includes a large part of intra-EU activities. So if one german citizen writes another german citizen an email, chances are very high that email will be stored on a Google server - or at least on a server of a german subsidiary of Google. This makes the CLOUD act relevant to EU citizens, even though technically, the obligations of Google under it are a purely domestic affair. So if the CLOUD act gives US agencies the power to subpoena Google to retrieve data about non-US citizens - while Google is effectively running large part of the internet for other countries - then that does feel a bit like extension of jurisdiction. (It technically isn't, and to my knowledge the ECJ wasn't arguing that it was. The ECJ simply argued that Google's obligations under the CLOUD act are incompatible with Google's obligations under the GDPR. So something's got to give) Going back to the beginning of the thread, I have to admit though, I have no idea if the CLOUD act would give agencies the power to force inclusion of certain root certs. So I take that back.