3 ms·

EDIT: Ok, after the parent edit I am convinced you’re a little bit more reasonable, however, I can tell you’ve already made up your mind and are more interested

EDIT: Ok, after the parent edit I am convinced you’re a little bit more reasonable, however, I can tell you’ve already made up your mind and are more interested in defending your position (which you haven’t actually ever elaborated) and making reductive claims about the character of your opponents (that they are just “complaining” or “entitled”) than actually having a discussion. You seem to want your interlocutor to follow all the polite rules of discussion while abandoning them all yourself. My rent increased significantly for no reason other than a shift in market rates. I struggle to see how this does not count as being directly effected. Yes. Desires. People have them. Usually they dictate behaviors. It’s why people move to New York. It’s why you’re quoting my comments and writing replies—you want to show me that you’re “smarter” and that my dissatisfactions are illegitimate and you think a great way to do so is to write targeted quips that take one or two lines of text out of context, but unfortunately you’re not succeeding. It’s clear you have no interest in actual persuasion or discussion—if you do, I highly recommend taking a few writing or debate classes, maybe brushing up on what it means to empathize, learn about logos/ethos/pathos, read some philosophy, things like that.

rglullis 4y ago
> I can tell you’ve already made up your mind When this is your first statement following your attempted "apology", how can anyone be interested in continuing with the conversation? > You seem to want your interlocutor to follow all the polite rules of discussion while abandoning them all yourself. It's not about "politeness". It's about honesty. I'd rather have a honest-but-dry conversation than a pleasantly-dishonest one. > your position (which you haven’t actually ever elaborated) My position (if it couldn't even be called that) is that NYC is a victim of its own (relative) success compared to all the other cities in the US. The best way to get NYC to become more affordable would be to rescue other cities. There are just too many people with too much money chasing not enough houses in urban areas that are desirable, so of course the prices will go up in the places that are. Rent control is not going to solve this. It's only going to create a privileged class that is going to cling on to their old leases. Landlords will have zero incentive to invest. Developers will have less incentive to build, and then only the existing stock will continue to be around. It's supply that needs to be fixed. Also, it may seem counter-intuitive at first, but to fix cities in North America you need to get rid of suburbia.
- voidhorse 4y ago
  Ok, we’ll now I feel that I was mistaken earlier, and want to offer an actual apology. I think our discussion got off on the wrong foot and some of the ad hominem involved annoyed me. I think this post (that I’m replying to) shows that I was wrong in my judgements, and I think your idea to rescues other cities is a good one. I think NYC’s location is one of the difficulties involved with such a plan. NYC is partly desirable because its locality makes it an easy hub for travel to and from Europe. You can make other cities attractive by other means, but it will be hard to beat this and the entrenchment of current residents and businesses. The idea of eliminating suburbs to fix supply is interesting. I do think that could be beneficial, but at the same time, that also would require regulations or policies that push development away from suburbs and into cities. Either way you’ll need some kind of regulatory intervention. The question is whether or not supply increase is sufficient to alter the market, I’m skeptical of such a claim because new residential developments crop up in NYC all the time but it doesn’t seem to help drive down rates at all. Furthermore, NYC’s population for the decade had its peak in 2016, yet prices then were more affordable[1]. Maybe there’s data that shows there’s an extreme influx of individuals now and the population in NYC surpassed this number in 2022, but I’d be surprised if that were the case esp. when you factor in new building developments that occurred in the meantime. I don’t think it boils down to a simple supply problem. It may be due to the fact that brokerages are snatching up properties and charging more than individual landlords, it may be a side effect of inflation, it may be predatory profit seeking after the pandemic. I don’t know, but I don’t think merely throwing up a bunch of new buildings will necessarily fix things, and as I mentioned before, we need to consider the other negative consequences of such a plan (density, the consequent environmental impacts etc.) [1]: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/planning/download/pdf/planning-level/nyc-population/population-estimates/understanding-current-population-trends-in-nyc.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/planning/download/pdf/planning-l...
  - rglullis 4y ago
    > regulations or policies that push development away from suburbs and into cities. I misspoke. By "getting rid of suburbia", I mean getting rid of American-style, car-centric suburban development. You'll absolutely want to have development in the suburbs. And to do that, you don't need a lot of changes in regulations. Surely, you'll have to fight with NIMBYs, but these changes do not require massive regulations: - Upzoning all R1 zones, and abolish Euclidian Zone. Just by getting rid of exclusive single-family zones that are so prevalent in the US, and start allowing multi-family townhouses, mixed-use areas, you could recover basically every city that is not part of coastal metro area: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnKIVX968PQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnKIVX968PQ - Transit-oriented development. City Beautiful has a great video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYsqWIGyRVk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYsqWIGyRVk

rglullis 4y ago

> I can tell you’ve already made up your mind When this is your first statement following your attempted "apology", how can anyone be interested in continuing with the conversation? > You seem to want your interlocutor to follow all the polite rules of discussion while abandoning them all yourself. It's not about "politeness". It's about honesty. I'd rather have a honest-but-dry conversation than a pleasantly-dishonest one. > your position (which you haven’t actually ever elaborated) My position (if it couldn't even be called that) is that NYC is a victim of its own (relative) success compared to all the other cities in the US. The best way to get NYC to become more affordable would be to rescue other cities. There are just too many people with too much money chasing not enough houses in urban areas that are desirable, so of course the prices will go up in the places that are. Rent control is not going to solve this. It's only going to create a privileged class that is going to cling on to their old leases. Landlords will have zero incentive to invest. Developers will have less incentive to build, and then only the existing stock will continue to be around. It's supply that needs to be fixed. Also, it may seem counter-intuitive at first, but to fix cities in North America you need to get rid of suburbia.

voidhorse 4y ago
Ok, we’ll now I feel that I was mistaken earlier, and want to offer an actual apology. I think our discussion got off on the wrong foot and some of the ad hominem involved annoyed me. I think this post (that I’m replying to) shows that I was wrong in my judgements, and I think your idea to rescues other cities is a good one. I think NYC’s location is one of the difficulties involved with such a plan. NYC is partly desirable because its locality makes it an easy hub for travel to and from Europe. You can make other cities attractive by other means, but it will be hard to beat this and the entrenchment of current residents and businesses. The idea of eliminating suburbs to fix supply is interesting. I do think that could be beneficial, but at the same time, that also would require regulations or policies that push development away from suburbs and into cities. Either way you’ll need some kind of regulatory intervention. The question is whether or not supply increase is sufficient to alter the market, I’m skeptical of such a claim because new residential developments crop up in NYC all the time but it doesn’t seem to help drive down rates at all. Furthermore, NYC’s population for the decade had its peak in 2016, yet prices then were more affordable[1]. Maybe there’s data that shows there’s an extreme influx of individuals now and the population in NYC surpassed this number in 2022, but I’d be surprised if that were the case esp. when you factor in new building developments that occurred in the meantime. I don’t think it boils down to a simple supply problem. It may be due to the fact that brokerages are snatching up properties and charging more than individual landlords, it may be a side effect of inflation, it may be predatory profit seeking after the pandemic. I don’t know, but I don’t think merely throwing up a bunch of new buildings will necessarily fix things, and as I mentioned before, we need to consider the other negative consequences of such a plan (density, the consequent environmental impacts etc.) [1]: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/planning/download/pdf/planning-level/nyc-population/population-estimates/understanding-current-population-trends-in-nyc.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/planning/download/pdf/planning-l...
- rglullis 4y ago
  > regulations or policies that push development away from suburbs and into cities. I misspoke. By "getting rid of suburbia", I mean getting rid of American-style, car-centric suburban development. You'll absolutely want to have development in the suburbs. And to do that, you don't need a lot of changes in regulations. Surely, you'll have to fight with NIMBYs, but these changes do not require massive regulations: - Upzoning all R1 zones, and abolish Euclidian Zone. Just by getting rid of exclusive single-family zones that are so prevalent in the US, and start allowing multi-family townhouses, mixed-use areas, you could recover basically every city that is not part of coastal metro area: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnKIVX968PQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnKIVX968PQ - Transit-oriented development. City Beautiful has a great video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYsqWIGyRVk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYsqWIGyRVk