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There’s no fundamental reason “America is probably not for” people who want high-quality, dense urbanism. The rent in NYC is a clear sign that there’s demand fo

by paulgb 4y ago

There’s no fundamental reason “America is probably not for” people who want high-quality, dense urbanism. The rent in NYC is a clear sign that there’s demand for it.

_jab 4y ago
It’s also a sign there’s not sufficient supply of it. Hence that America as a whole sucks at mass transit.
noobermin 4y ago
There is definitely demand, but America won't build that demand because the "silent majority" (homeowners who still are fearful of minorities and poor people) won't let that happen.
inglor_cz 4y ago
Depends on what you call "fundamental reason". Building new mass transport systems like light rail in existing cities from scratch requires a lot of political momentum, basically willingness to crush the pervasive NIMBY mentality and overcome the pull of bureaucratic inertia. Even in European cities that never dismantled their light rail systems, inhabitants often fight back against line extensions, citing noise concerns etc., and are able to delay the construction for years or decades. Plus such systems aren't cheap and usually require new subsidies on top of existing subsidies. You will still have to maintain the existing road system and bridges, their usage won't drop to zero or even a quarter of current traffic. Some people won't voluntarily switch to public transit ever, for all kinds of reasons. Maybe this isn't "fundamental", but IMHO the hurdles to overcome are really high and I am not sure if there is any city in the US willing to try this and having the means to do so.
zjaffee 4y ago
That's not true, there's demand to live in a specific part of NYC. I really cannot stand that urbanists say this sort of thing. Demand isn't just for walkablity, it's for the complete new urbanist neighborhood that was first formalized by the likes of Jane Jacobs and friends. It's about the unique one of a kind shops, access to really unique amenities that only exist in the city and so on. There are plenty of walkable parts of NYC like the South Bronx that have far lower demand to live there than the suburbs in nearby NJ or hell the not so walkable parts of NYC like Staten island, south Bronx or the outer parts of Queens. What people want is access to amenities in under 10 minutes of travel time, and under 20 minutes of travel to special events they don't go to regularly, as well as a short job commute. This can easily be solved by getting rid of euclidean zoning in suburbs and building out all American suburbs in the style of cities like Portland originally had been.

by paulgb 4y ago

There’s no fundamental reason “America is probably not for” people who want high-quality, dense urbanism. The rent in NYC is a clear sign that there’s demand for it.

_jab 4y ago

It’s also a sign there’s not sufficient supply of it. Hence that America as a whole sucks at mass transit.

noobermin 4y ago

There is definitely demand, but America won't build that demand because the "silent majority" (homeowners who still are fearful of minorities and poor people) won't let that happen.

inglor_cz 4y ago

Depends on what you call "fundamental reason". Building new mass transport systems like light rail in existing cities from scratch requires a lot of political momentum, basically willingness to crush the pervasive NIMBY mentality and overcome the pull of bureaucratic inertia. Even in European cities that never dismantled their light rail systems, inhabitants often fight back against line extensions, citing noise concerns etc., and are able to delay the construction for years or decades. Plus such systems aren't cheap and usually require new subsidies on top of existing subsidies. You will still have to maintain the existing road system and bridges, their usage won't drop to zero or even a quarter of current traffic. Some people won't voluntarily switch to public transit ever, for all kinds of reasons. Maybe this isn't "fundamental", but IMHO the hurdles to overcome are really high and I am not sure if there is any city in the US willing to try this and having the means to do so.

zjaffee 4y ago

That's not true, there's demand to live in a specific part of NYC. I really cannot stand that urbanists say this sort of thing. Demand isn't just for walkablity, it's for the complete new urbanist neighborhood that was first formalized by the likes of Jane Jacobs and friends. It's about the unique one of a kind shops, access to really unique amenities that only exist in the city and so on. There are plenty of walkable parts of NYC like the South Bronx that have far lower demand to live there than the suburbs in nearby NJ or hell the not so walkable parts of NYC like Staten island, south Bronx or the outer parts of Queens. What people want is access to amenities in under 10 minutes of travel time, and under 20 minutes of travel to special events they don't go to regularly, as well as a short job commute. This can easily be solved by getting rid of euclidean zoning in suburbs and building out all American suburbs in the style of cities like Portland originally had been.