3 ms·

The silly thing is that I can simply adjust my thermostat to a lower temperature, so that the effective temperature is the same as without this program. As an

The silly thing is that I can simply adjust my thermostat to a lower temperature, so that the effective temperature is the same as without this program. As an example, if I set it to 74, then when Energy Savings kicks in, it may set it to 76, which is too warm for me. So I simply set the "standard" temperature to 72, and it will set it to 74. I use the same energy as without this program, yet I get my $25 energy savings rebate. Silly.

ceejayoz 4y ago
That's fine, really. The utility's concern is predictability and burst capacity, not raw usage, so they know when and how many https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant to turn on, which may take a while.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  Not sure I follow. If they just want to know in advance, then they don't need to modify the temperature at all, correct?
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Lowering the load helps avoid needing the more expensive short term plants from coming online. Whether you go from 76 to 78 or from 66 to 68, you’re helping avoid the burst in demand they’d get.
    - BeetleB 4y ago
      That's true, assuming I changed the temperature setting prior to the event, and I likely won't time it perfectly (nor would I want to). The real thing is: These events last for hours. If what you say is true, then wouldn't altering the thermostat for a small period (e.g. 30 minutes) suffice?
sokoloff 4y ago
It seems like maintaining a higher delta-T from ambient would require more energy, not the same amount. You are still shaving the peak demand with this approach, so the $25 could still be earned.
- BeetleB 4y ago
  I'm not following. Peak event is, say, from 3-7pm. All my Ecobee does is set the thermostat to be a few degrees higher in that time period. So as soon as it hits 3pm, I change my thermostat to a cooler temperature, so that the final temperature is what it would have been without this program. Pretty much exactly the same usage as without enrolling into the program. Same "spikes", etc. Without the program, it would be set to 74 continuously. With the program, it's set to 74 before 3pm, and then at around 3pm (or just before), I set it to 72 so that it will continue at 74.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    I did not read "standard temperature" to mean "a thing that I manually adjust twice per day on a fixed schedule" but rather "I set it 2ºF colder in April and leave it that way until November". If you are willing to make 60 thermostat adjustments per month at 42¢ each, you earned that $25 in my book.
    - BeetleB 4y ago
      Energy savings events in my area are rare - only a few days of the year and very predictable (usually on a "hot" day). It's not a burden. Prior to this program, the local utility company would merely announce the hours of peak events, and recommend minimizing energy usage as much as you can tolerate. They'd calculate how much less energy you used, and give a credit commensurate to that amount. I used to just chill at a nearby library during those hours (no kids in those days). With this program, all they do is check that I participated often enough to exceed a threshold, and I get a fixed rebate (regardless of how much I exceed the threshold). And I effectively get that rebate by not saving any energy, and with little effort on my part. It's silly.

ceejayoz 4y ago

That's fine, really. The utility's concern is predictability and burst capacity, not raw usage, so they know when and how many https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant to turn on, which may take a while.

BeetleB 4y ago
Not sure I follow. If they just want to know in advance, then they don't need to modify the temperature at all, correct?
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Lowering the load helps avoid needing the more expensive short term plants from coming online. Whether you go from 76 to 78 or from 66 to 68, you’re helping avoid the burst in demand they’d get.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    That's true, assuming I changed the temperature setting prior to the event, and I likely won't time it perfectly (nor would I want to). The real thing is: These events last for hours. If what you say is true, then wouldn't altering the thermostat for a small period (e.g. 30 minutes) suffice?

sokoloff 4y ago

It seems like maintaining a higher delta-T from ambient would require more energy, not the same amount. You are still shaving the peak demand with this approach, so the $25 could still be earned.

BeetleB 4y ago
I'm not following. Peak event is, say, from 3-7pm. All my Ecobee does is set the thermostat to be a few degrees higher in that time period. So as soon as it hits 3pm, I change my thermostat to a cooler temperature, so that the final temperature is what it would have been without this program. Pretty much exactly the same usage as without enrolling into the program. Same "spikes", etc. Without the program, it would be set to 74 continuously. With the program, it's set to 74 before 3pm, and then at around 3pm (or just before), I set it to 72 so that it will continue at 74.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  I did not read "standard temperature" to mean "a thing that I manually adjust twice per day on a fixed schedule" but rather "I set it 2ºF colder in April and leave it that way until November". If you are willing to make 60 thermostat adjustments per month at 42¢ each, you earned that $25 in my book.
  - BeetleB 4y ago
    Energy savings events in my area are rare - only a few days of the year and very predictable (usually on a "hot" day). It's not a burden. Prior to this program, the local utility company would merely announce the hours of peak events, and recommend minimizing energy usage as much as you can tolerate. They'd calculate how much less energy you used, and give a credit commensurate to that amount. I used to just chill at a nearby library during those hours (no kids in those days). With this program, all they do is check that I participated often enough to exceed a threshold, and I get a fixed rebate (regardless of how much I exceed the threshold). And I effectively get that rebate by not saving any energy, and with little effort on my part. It's silly.