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> it's wise to avoid the Unity installer What "Unity installer"? Games nowadays are all distributed on steam / epic / app store / etc. If you are talking abou

> it's wise to avoid the Unity installer What "Unity installer"? Games nowadays are all distributed on steam / epic / app store / etc. If you are talking about the editor, this makes no sense they would bundled it up with malware (their target is the games made with it). I'm not thrill about the announcement at all but there is a lot of unfounded fear.

greenthrow 4y ago
These platforms still have an install process for the applications which involves the ability to run third party software with elevated permissions. E.g. for Steam see the Install Script section here: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/sdk/goldmaster https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/sdk/goldmaster
- starburst 4y ago
  Of course but if a game has malware the publisher would get insta ban from these platform.
  - greenthrow 4y ago
    Depends if our definition of malware and Valve, EA, etc.'s are the same.
    - starburst 4y ago
      True, it's still technically a possibility. I guess my point was more that everyone seems to buy in the tabloid reporting that unity games installer will now be filled with malware when this merging is clearly meant that they want to add more Ads into unity games. And showing interstitial Ads in a game is not the same as malware.
      - 0x6c6f6c 4y ago
        > clearly meant that they want to add more Ads into unity games That is only your interpretation of the purchase. Unless you have insider information you don't know what their true intentions are. They could have purchased a more reputable company with the same goal you mentioned.
    - sam0x17 4y ago
      Pretty much all anti-cheat software meets the definition of malware
      - starburst 4y ago
        They share similarity, but they are still seen as two separate categories of software. The malware discussed above is absolutely not the same as DRM / Anti-cheat that are bundled in most games today and bundling something that is definitely a "malware" will get you kicked off those platform whereas DRM / Anti-cheat is tolerated.
        buran77 4y ago
        > They share similarity, but they are still seen as two separate categories of software Malware isn't really a uniform category of software. They can be harmful in a lot of different ways. Something like a kernel level anti-cheat is malware in almost every sense of the name except the developer's promise that it's not doing anything nasty. And there's a long list of DRM that affects the performance, security, or stability of the system while most users aren't aware this is happening or why. They install a game, everything else that comes with it is realistically hidden just like any malware. So while you could group them in different categories, many forms of DRM are malware in form and function.
        starburst 4y ago
        What matters here is the definition from those platform on what is considered "Malware". Not our philosophical definition of it. How would you call a "Malware" as describe above versus a "Malware" DRM / Anti-cheat. There is a clear separation between the two for those platforms.
        skinnymuch 4y ago
        What matters is how the platforms behave. Power and money defines how platforms behave, not their temporary principles or stances.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    And yet 'anticheat' software and drm still exists.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- keyringlight 4y ago
  Even without elevation, a process can "only" [1] interact with your whole profile [1] https://xkcd.com/1200/ https://xkcd.com/1200/
cokeandpepsi 4y ago
malware like redshell come to mind https://www.polygon.com/2018/6/20/17485762/red-shell-spyware-pc-games-controversy-steam https://www.polygon.com/2018/6/20/17485762/red-shell-spyware...
nathanvanfleet 4y ago
So you think it's unfounded to assume that them merging with a malware company means they will start installing malware somehow? I think there would be _no other reason_ to merge with a company that makes malware? Maybe it won't target devs, but the concern is no unfounded.
- dcow 4y ago
  No. I really don't see the concern. Unity's business model does not involve targeting users with ads by installing malware on their system. However, many games studios do choose to integrate ads into their game loop and as a game platform I can see exactly why Unit wants this type of talent in-house so they can make their platform more attractive for game devs that might be looking for this type of feature in a platform.
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    Unity just merged with a company whose business model is exactly that. Concern seems warranted.
    - WillPostForFood 4y ago
      Their business model is mobile ads. The installer business was a decade ago, and prior to another merger with another ad network. The concern here is hyperbolic. This is about ads, not malware. There is no rational reason Unity would want to get close to malware.
      - lmm 4y ago
        Ads are malware. The reason ad networks use the same techniques as other forms of malware is that they're both trying to make the computer behave in ways that its owner doesn't want.
  - tomnipotent 4y ago
    A non-trivial percentage of their revenue, however, is from Unity Ads.

greenthrow 4y ago

These platforms still have an install process for the applications which involves the ability to run third party software with elevated permissions. E.g. for Steam see the Install Script section here: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/sdk/goldmaster https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/sdk/goldmaster

starburst 4y ago
Of course but if a game has malware the publisher would get insta ban from these platform.
- greenthrow 4y ago
  Depends if our definition of malware and Valve, EA, etc.'s are the same.
  - starburst 4y ago
    True, it's still technically a possibility. I guess my point was more that everyone seems to buy in the tabloid reporting that unity games installer will now be filled with malware when this merging is clearly meant that they want to add more Ads into unity games. And showing interstitial Ads in a game is not the same as malware.
    - 0x6c6f6c 4y ago
      > clearly meant that they want to add more Ads into unity games That is only your interpretation of the purchase. Unless you have insider information you don't know what their true intentions are. They could have purchased a more reputable company with the same goal you mentioned.
  - sam0x17 4y ago
    Pretty much all anti-cheat software meets the definition of malware
    - starburst 4y ago
      They share similarity, but they are still seen as two separate categories of software. The malware discussed above is absolutely not the same as DRM / Anti-cheat that are bundled in most games today and bundling something that is definitely a "malware" will get you kicked off those platform whereas DRM / Anti-cheat is tolerated.
      - buran77 4y ago
        > They share similarity, but they are still seen as two separate categories of software Malware isn't really a uniform category of software. They can be harmful in a lot of different ways. Something like a kernel level anti-cheat is malware in almost every sense of the name except the developer's promise that it's not doing anything nasty. And there's a long list of DRM that affects the performance, security, or stability of the system while most users aren't aware this is happening or why. They install a game, everything else that comes with it is realistically hidden just like any malware. So while you could group them in different categories, many forms of DRM are malware in form and function.
        starburst 4y ago
        What matters here is the definition from those platform on what is considered "Malware". Not our philosophical definition of it. How would you call a "Malware" as describe above versus a "Malware" DRM / Anti-cheat. There is a clear separation between the two for those platforms.
        skinnymuch 4y ago
        What matters is how the platforms behave. Power and money defines how platforms behave, not their temporary principles or stances.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  And yet 'anticheat' software and drm still exists.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
keyringlight 4y ago
Even without elevation, a process can "only" [1] interact with your whole profile [1] https://xkcd.com/1200/ https://xkcd.com/1200/

cokeandpepsi 4y ago

malware like redshell come to mind https://www.polygon.com/2018/6/20/17485762/red-shell-spyware-pc-games-controversy-steam https://www.polygon.com/2018/6/20/17485762/red-shell-spyware...

nathanvanfleet 4y ago

So you think it's unfounded to assume that them merging with a malware company means they will start installing malware somehow? I think there would be _no other reason_ to merge with a company that makes malware? Maybe it won't target devs, but the concern is no unfounded.

dcow 4y ago
No. I really don't see the concern. Unity's business model does not involve targeting users with ads by installing malware on their system. However, many games studios do choose to integrate ads into their game loop and as a game platform I can see exactly why Unit wants this type of talent in-house so they can make their platform more attractive for game devs that might be looking for this type of feature in a platform.
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  Unity just merged with a company whose business model is exactly that. Concern seems warranted.
  - WillPostForFood 4y ago
    Their business model is mobile ads. The installer business was a decade ago, and prior to another merger with another ad network. The concern here is hyperbolic. This is about ads, not malware. There is no rational reason Unity would want to get close to malware.
    - lmm 4y ago
      Ads are malware. The reason ad networks use the same techniques as other forms of malware is that they're both trying to make the computer behave in ways that its owner doesn't want.
- tomnipotent 4y ago
  A non-trivial percentage of their revenue, however, is from Unity Ads.