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look, I'm sorry to be negative here, but... “Every tower in New York comes from a different planet, everybody is competing with each other. With Forma, I’m try

look, I'm sorry to be negative here, but... “Every tower in New York comes from a different planet, everybody is competing with each other. With Forma, I’m trying to create community” Look at this garbage: https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/projects/2022/04/toronto-gehry-designed-project-branded-as-forma https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/projects/2022/0... Only a modern starchitect could think that any sort of community could arise out of towering glass boxes (ah, yes, the yale box[1], wow, amazingly original) that look like they are about to fall over on top of you. At least the brutalists were honest about wanting to alienate people. The damage done by modern architecture will take a millenia to fix. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Bauhaus_to_Our_House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Bauhaus_to_Our_House

trgn 4y ago
Piggy backing on the Wolfe link: The criticisms of modernism in the 70s were already very precise and perceptive. See also for example Jane Jacobs or Christopher Alexander. However, instead, it pushed us into the pageantry of post-modernism, which, even though less bad, didn't really create a paradigm shift. It still conceived the building-proper as a sculpture, with all the idiocy that implies.
- dr_dshiv 4y ago
  Architects tend to hate Christopher Alexander, but he is loved by everyone else. His debate with Eisenman is pretty classic. Prince Charles is hated on by architects for the same reason. His book “harmony” is a deliberation about the types of buildings and town structures that produce vitality. I was skeptical but it is a great read.
ckardat123 4y ago
I don't think that any of the other "famous architects" measure up to Wright, but I do like a lot of the work done by Calatrava, Hadid, and I.M. Pei. Examples below: https://images.adsttc.com/media/images/5850/5b9b/e58e/ce32/8a00/0004/newsletter/SC_Oculus_019.jpg?1481661331 https://images.adsttc.com/media/images/5850/5b9b/e58e/ce32/8... http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/191120080400-04-zara-hadid-beijing-china-leeza-soho-building-super-tease.jpg http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/191120080400-04-zara-h... https://desmoinesartcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/IM-PEI-Building.jpg https://desmoinesartcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/IM...
- LunaSea 4y ago
  Calatrava is also well known for projects that go over budget and aren't designed with usage in mind. Form over function.
- causi 4y ago
  That last one looks like an alligator enclosure at a zoo.
  - ckardat123 4y ago
    That was probably partially due to poor image selection on my part. Here's one that I think is a slightly better representation of the building: https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/max_1200/34eb7266556415.5b19a760b7aad.jpg https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/max_1200/3... I think that while the building uses a lot of elements of brutalist style, it also does a good job incorporating natural light. The art in the picture below doesn't isn't particularly compelling to me, but I like the architecture: https://live.staticflickr.com/1742/42628537001_fe8a195275_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/1742/42628537001_fe8a195275_b....
    - asdjfhjlaksdhf 4y ago
      is this the museum in Pasadena?
      - ckardat123 4y ago
        Des Moines https://desmoinesartcenter.org/about/architecture/i-m-pei/ https://desmoinesartcenter.org/about/architecture/i-m-pei/
- zemvpferreira 4y ago
  Interesting to look at and liveable are orthogonal qualities at best and opposite at worst. One of those is truly important for inhabitants of a building, while the other is truly important to the architect's reputation. I'll let you guess which I think is which. Personally, I'm tired of architecture being treated as a grotesque form of sculpture.
paganel 4y ago
At least brutalism gave us (at least here, in Eastern Europe) relatively cheap mass-housing projects (I’m writing from an appartment located inside one of those buildings right now), not that much cheap mass-housing projects coming from the stararchitects of today.
- cjbgkagh 4y ago
  I liked my commie box when I lived in one. There is something to be said for having money left over after paying rent.
jszymborski 4y ago
As a wise man once said: “That’s, like, just your opinion, man”. I for one think if you’re hoping to build X number of apartments in Y space, where Y is priced at downtown Toronto land prices, then you’re going to make variations of a box (or a Gherkin, but then it’d be a gherkin). Of course, Forma isn’t a cube, there’s a lot of texture there; there’s contrast and light. But, that just, like, my opinion, man
m0llusk 4y ago
Having trouble finding early designs since the promotions of the finished building have buried earlier coverage of the project, but these buildings started out with a much more organic look and got turned into boring boxes along the way. Value engineering and all that. Also the fact that most of his designs start out disconnected from the realities of construction.

trgn 4y ago

Piggy backing on the Wolfe link: The criticisms of modernism in the 70s were already very precise and perceptive. See also for example Jane Jacobs or Christopher Alexander. However, instead, it pushed us into the pageantry of post-modernism, which, even though less bad, didn't really create a paradigm shift. It still conceived the building-proper as a sculpture, with all the idiocy that implies.

dr_dshiv 4y ago
Architects tend to hate Christopher Alexander, but he is loved by everyone else. His debate with Eisenman is pretty classic. Prince Charles is hated on by architects for the same reason. His book “harmony” is a deliberation about the types of buildings and town structures that produce vitality. I was skeptical but it is a great read.

ckardat123 4y ago

I don't think that any of the other "famous architects" measure up to Wright, but I do like a lot of the work done by Calatrava, Hadid, and I.M. Pei. Examples below: https://images.adsttc.com/media/images/5850/5b9b/e58e/ce32/8a00/0004/newsletter/SC_Oculus_019.jpg?1481661331 https://images.adsttc.com/media/images/5850/5b9b/e58e/ce32/8... http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/191120080400-04-zara-hadid-beijing-china-leeza-soho-building-super-tease.jpg http://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/191120080400-04-zara-h... https://desmoinesartcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/IM-PEI-Building.jpg https://desmoinesartcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/IM...

LunaSea 4y ago
Calatrava is also well known for projects that go over budget and aren't designed with usage in mind. Form over function.
causi 4y ago
That last one looks like an alligator enclosure at a zoo.
- ckardat123 4y ago
  That was probably partially due to poor image selection on my part. Here's one that I think is a slightly better representation of the building: https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/max_1200/34eb7266556415.5b19a760b7aad.jpg https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/max_1200/3... I think that while the building uses a lot of elements of brutalist style, it also does a good job incorporating natural light. The art in the picture below doesn't isn't particularly compelling to me, but I like the architecture: https://live.staticflickr.com/1742/42628537001_fe8a195275_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/1742/42628537001_fe8a195275_b....
  - asdjfhjlaksdhf 4y ago
    is this the museum in Pasadena?
    - ckardat123 4y ago
      Des Moines https://desmoinesartcenter.org/about/architecture/i-m-pei/ https://desmoinesartcenter.org/about/architecture/i-m-pei/
zemvpferreira 4y ago
Interesting to look at and liveable are orthogonal qualities at best and opposite at worst. One of those is truly important for inhabitants of a building, while the other is truly important to the architect's reputation. I'll let you guess which I think is which. Personally, I'm tired of architecture being treated as a grotesque form of sculpture.

paganel 4y ago

At least brutalism gave us (at least here, in Eastern Europe) relatively cheap mass-housing projects (I’m writing from an appartment located inside one of those buildings right now), not that much cheap mass-housing projects coming from the stararchitects of today.

cjbgkagh 4y ago
I liked my commie box when I lived in one. There is something to be said for having money left over after paying rent.

jszymborski 4y ago

As a wise man once said: “That’s, like, just your opinion, man”. I for one think if you’re hoping to build X number of apartments in Y space, where Y is priced at downtown Toronto land prices, then you’re going to make variations of a box (or a Gherkin, but then it’d be a gherkin). Of course, Forma isn’t a cube, there’s a lot of texture there; there’s contrast and light. But, that just, like, my opinion, man

m0llusk 4y ago

Having trouble finding early designs since the promotions of the finished building have buried earlier coverage of the project, but these buildings started out with a much more organic look and got turned into boring boxes along the way. Value engineering and all that. Also the fact that most of his designs start out disconnected from the realities of construction.