8 ms·

"At age 93, Frank Gehry, the original starchitect" Nitpicking, but surely this title must go to Frank Lloyd Wright[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMXK

"At age 93, Frank Gehry, the original starchitect" Nitpicking, but surely this title must go to Frank Lloyd Wright[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMXK_KtUVm4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMXK_KtUVm4

reaperducer 4y ago
They have a lot in common. Both made visually stunning buildings that were poorly designed. They are the Jony Ives of their field. Frank Lloyd Wright homes sell for much less than they you might think based on their looks, because they're maintenance nightmares. Lots of newspaper articles about this over the last 50 years.
- ckardat123 4y ago
  I don't think it's entirely fair to call Wright buildings poorly designed, a lot of the maintenance issues come down to the buildings' age. He was designing buildings back in the late 1800s. While there is obviously a good deal work required in maintaining buildings from that era, I don't think that Wright's work has required a disproportionate amount of attention. The Imperial Hotel in Japan survived a massive 1923 Tokyo earthquake due to several design decisions made by Wright.
  - reaperducer 4y ago
    a lot of the maintenance issues come down to the buildings' age. Your supposition runs counter to what has been documented many times by many industry publications and general purpose newspapers. I know about ten very good architects who work on very large projects around the world. Two of whom would deserve to be called "starchitects," if they were interested in self-promotion. Wright is well-known in the professional architecture world as someone whose buildings are great when the go up, but quickly reveal their flaws once lived in and used. The Imperial Hotel in Japan survived a massive 1923 Tokyo earthquake due to several design decisions made by Wright One building out of over a thousand. Oak Park, Illinois has no shortage of homes that have become well-publicized money pits because of Mr. Wright's choices. Heck, his very famous Fallingwater house is considered one of his crowning achievements, but is also a spectacular failure. He built it over a waterfall, and didn't take humidity into consideration. He built it in Pennsylvania and didn't take winter into consideration. Defects in the concrete floor designs were noted even during construction. Nothing to do with age.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      I live in Oak Park and haven't really heard of any of these money pits. Can you give me some links?
      - reaperducer 4y ago
        No, because I read it in the dead tree editions of newspapers and magazines. But there's a thing called Google that might be of some use to you.
        tptacek 4y ago
        I did that before I asked, and found a Wright house 2 blocks from where I grew up (in Beverly, not Oak Park) that was a "money pit", because the previous owners had built an addition and plastered around the interior, and they decided to restore it and add period-appropriate window decorations. I didn't find any references to money pit Wright houses in Oak Park. I'm the weirdo who actually reads our local newspapers, for what it's worth. Like I said, I actually live here.
        tedunangst 4y ago
        For those of us too stupid to guess the appropriate search terms to get relevant results, would you kindly offer up some hints?
        balsam 4y ago
        Try searching with “remodelling”, “cold winters”, etc?
      - AlbertCory 4y ago
        I've been there & seen the houses. newspapers.com is your resource for stuff that's not on The Google. Searching is much harder, though. You kinda need to know the dates things were published.
      - balsam 4y ago
        https://chicago.curbed.com/maps/oak-park-frank-lloyd-wright-walking-tour https://chicago.curbed.com/maps/oak-park-frank-lloyd-wright-... Promises 25 places on the map.
  - yojo 4y ago
    I’ve owned several 1910s/1920s era single family homes. So not quite as old, as what you’re describing, but close. As long as you stay on top of it, the maintenance is totally reasonable. Putting a new roof on is identical to any other house. Ditto siding, ditto paint (minus having to worry about lead). I recently replaced >20 original windows on one of them. They were just held in with trim. Honestly it was easier than taking out an 80s era aluminum window. In many ways they’re better than modern construction. The lumber they used is miles ahead of anything on the market today. Lots of old growth redwood and cedar that give you some natural rot protection. I know little about the maintenance challenges of Wright buildings, but generally speaking old wood houses are not crazy expensive to maintain. But my house is a pretty standard shape, and it doesn’t have a waterfall running underneath it.
- lukasb 4y ago
  Have you ever been inside a Wright building? They just feel fantastic to be in. The way a cathedral interior creates this powerful sense of space? Wright could do that with a living room.
  - reaperducer 4y ago
    Yes, I have. Many times. Homes, office buildings, religious buildings, and other structures, including the SC Johnson campus in Wisconsin. They look great. They feel great. They work terribly. The Johnson labs, for example, was designed to allow in lots of natural light through glass and glass block walls. Great for reading. Terrible if the people inside work with substances that react to light. Again, great concept. Visually wonderful. But not well thought out.
    - AlbertCory 4y ago
      I've been to the SC Johnson headquarters building in Racine (not the labs, as you said). They are still working there. It took a lot of post-construction work to make it usable and rainproof. And it's beautiful, which you certainly can't say about 99% of the corporate buildings in use nowadays.
- Kon-Peki 4y ago
  > maintenance nightmares Wright was always pushing boundaries in construction technology and ended up using a lot of techniques and materials that weren't quite ready for production. I'd bet that almost every design of his could be made today with no long-term maintenance issues whatsoever.
tgv 4y ago
Not to Le Corbusier?
- ckardat123 4y ago
  Wright was designing buildings before Le Corbusier was born, although Le Corbusier definitely fits the bill as another architect who was well-known even among non-architects.
- soco 4y ago
  That's the Satanchitect, making hell freeze on Earth.

reaperducer 4y ago

They have a lot in common. Both made visually stunning buildings that were poorly designed. They are the Jony Ives of their field. Frank Lloyd Wright homes sell for much less than they you might think based on their looks, because they're maintenance nightmares. Lots of newspaper articles about this over the last 50 years.

ckardat123 4y ago
I don't think it's entirely fair to call Wright buildings poorly designed, a lot of the maintenance issues come down to the buildings' age. He was designing buildings back in the late 1800s. While there is obviously a good deal work required in maintaining buildings from that era, I don't think that Wright's work has required a disproportionate amount of attention. The Imperial Hotel in Japan survived a massive 1923 Tokyo earthquake due to several design decisions made by Wright.
- reaperducer 4y ago
  a lot of the maintenance issues come down to the buildings' age. Your supposition runs counter to what has been documented many times by many industry publications and general purpose newspapers. I know about ten very good architects who work on very large projects around the world. Two of whom would deserve to be called "starchitects," if they were interested in self-promotion. Wright is well-known in the professional architecture world as someone whose buildings are great when the go up, but quickly reveal their flaws once lived in and used. The Imperial Hotel in Japan survived a massive 1923 Tokyo earthquake due to several design decisions made by Wright One building out of over a thousand. Oak Park, Illinois has no shortage of homes that have become well-publicized money pits because of Mr. Wright's choices. Heck, his very famous Fallingwater house is considered one of his crowning achievements, but is also a spectacular failure. He built it over a waterfall, and didn't take humidity into consideration. He built it in Pennsylvania and didn't take winter into consideration. Defects in the concrete floor designs were noted even during construction. Nothing to do with age.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    I live in Oak Park and haven't really heard of any of these money pits. Can you give me some links?
    - reaperducer 4y ago
      No, because I read it in the dead tree editions of newspapers and magazines. But there's a thing called Google that might be of some use to you.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        I did that before I asked, and found a Wright house 2 blocks from where I grew up (in Beverly, not Oak Park) that was a "money pit", because the previous owners had built an addition and plastered around the interior, and they decided to restore it and add period-appropriate window decorations. I didn't find any references to money pit Wright houses in Oak Park. I'm the weirdo who actually reads our local newspapers, for what it's worth. Like I said, I actually live here.
      - tedunangst 4y ago
        For those of us too stupid to guess the appropriate search terms to get relevant results, would you kindly offer up some hints?
        balsam 4y ago
        Try searching with “remodelling”, “cold winters”, etc?
    - AlbertCory 4y ago
      I've been there & seen the houses. newspapers.com is your resource for stuff that's not on The Google. Searching is much harder, though. You kinda need to know the dates things were published.
    - balsam 4y ago
      https://chicago.curbed.com/maps/oak-park-frank-lloyd-wright-walking-tour https://chicago.curbed.com/maps/oak-park-frank-lloyd-wright-... Promises 25 places on the map.
- yojo 4y ago
  I’ve owned several 1910s/1920s era single family homes. So not quite as old, as what you’re describing, but close. As long as you stay on top of it, the maintenance is totally reasonable. Putting a new roof on is identical to any other house. Ditto siding, ditto paint (minus having to worry about lead). I recently replaced >20 original windows on one of them. They were just held in with trim. Honestly it was easier than taking out an 80s era aluminum window. In many ways they’re better than modern construction. The lumber they used is miles ahead of anything on the market today. Lots of old growth redwood and cedar that give you some natural rot protection. I know little about the maintenance challenges of Wright buildings, but generally speaking old wood houses are not crazy expensive to maintain. But my house is a pretty standard shape, and it doesn’t have a waterfall running underneath it.
lukasb 4y ago
Have you ever been inside a Wright building? They just feel fantastic to be in. The way a cathedral interior creates this powerful sense of space? Wright could do that with a living room.
- reaperducer 4y ago
  Yes, I have. Many times. Homes, office buildings, religious buildings, and other structures, including the SC Johnson campus in Wisconsin. They look great. They feel great. They work terribly. The Johnson labs, for example, was designed to allow in lots of natural light through glass and glass block walls. Great for reading. Terrible if the people inside work with substances that react to light. Again, great concept. Visually wonderful. But not well thought out.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    I've been to the SC Johnson headquarters building in Racine (not the labs, as you said). They are still working there. It took a lot of post-construction work to make it usable and rainproof. And it's beautiful, which you certainly can't say about 99% of the corporate buildings in use nowadays.
Kon-Peki 4y ago
> maintenance nightmares Wright was always pushing boundaries in construction technology and ended up using a lot of techniques and materials that weren't quite ready for production. I'd bet that almost every design of his could be made today with no long-term maintenance issues whatsoever.

tgv 4y ago

Not to Le Corbusier?

ckardat123 4y ago
Wright was designing buildings before Le Corbusier was born, although Le Corbusier definitely fits the bill as another architect who was well-known even among non-architects.
soco 4y ago
That's the Satanchitect, making hell freeze on Earth.