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That depends on the type and scope of "negative externalities", and not all libertarian philosophies agree on the where to draw that line. Some would say a neg

That depends on the type and scope of "negative externalities", and not all libertarian philosophies agree on the where to draw that line. Some would say a negative exernality like CO2 emissions would raise to the level for government regulations (violating NAP) , other libertarian philosophies would not, viewing it a totalitarian control as human breath expeals CO2 so if the government can regulate it then there are no limits on government at all. I dont know if I have a good answer

cool_dude85 4y ago
>viewing it a totalitarian control as human breath expeals CO2 so if the government can regulate it then there are no limits on government at all. "If the gubmit can tell multinational corps not to pull oil out of the ground, they can make me hold my breath! It produces the same molecule!" Libertarian philosophy in a nutshell.
- bcrosby95 4y ago
  Your post made me wonder what libertarians think about things like llcs and corporations - the legal shields they provide are a massive government subsidy.
  - corrral 4y ago
    Left-libertarians often think they shouldn't be A Thing, since they're extensions of state power and, besides, left-libertarians are more concerned with large concentrations of power per se than whether those concentrations happen to be called governments. Your average common-on-the-Internet right-libertarian usually hand-waves away how they're somehow fine and part of the "natural" (I cannot roll my eyes hard enough, in case you couldn't tell) free market. Some of the softer right-libertarians (bleeding over into folks who'd likely style themselves "classical liberals" rather than libertarians) aren't as hard-line and rigid, so don't really have the dilemma to begin with, but they're much less vocal on the Internet, probably in part because they disagree with the average person a lot less than the former sort does, so it just doesn't come up as much.
  - int_19h 4y ago
    Libertarians are not a hivemind. I mean, for starters, you'll have to clarify if you mean right-wing or left-wing libertarians. Speaking for myself, as a left-wing libertarian, I think that corporations, being an artificial creation of society, can come with whatever strings society deems suitable to attach to that privilege - provided that they're the same for everyone.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  That is hardly the argument but it is clear you do not want to have a substantive discussion so there is little point wasting my time explaining it
jamiek88 4y ago
Well who gives a shit what libertarians think? It’s a philosophy for 12 year olds. I can come up with any old bullshit by extending arguments to a level of ludicrousness like that. Doesn’t mean you should entertain my bullshit. humans are social creatures and have alway, always, always lived in a societal hierarchy. Our only genuine political decision we can make is what kind of government we want and how much freedom to give up. The idea that we can live without giving up any freedoms to a society just means that the strongest, most ruthless person ‘wins’ and is king. This is just a fact. There is no opinion involved. And the only reason this flavor of internet libertarianism exists is because those espousing it have grown up in relative comfort with no fear of warlords.
- bumby 4y ago
  Please review the HN Guidelines: "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>Well who gives a shit what libertarians think? well the person I was responding to who specifically talked about libertarian positions. >>It’s a philosophy for 12 year olds. Only for those with a 5th grade understanding of philosophy. The rest of your comment highlights your extreme ignorance of libertarian philosophy nicely, because no where in the philosophy do we deny social hierarchy or human nature, infact the primary goal of the different philosophies is to curb the natural tendencies of human nature to seek power over others, the "most ruthless person" wins has been found through out history in all manner of non-libertarian government, and the US Constitution is the closest formation of a libertarian government and has been pretty successful at resisting those natural tendencies, to the extent we have seen revision from that it is directly due to removal libertarian ideas from the US Governmental system and replacing them with majoritarian / collectivist ideals and policies

cool_dude85 4y ago

>viewing it a totalitarian control as human breath expeals CO2 so if the government can regulate it then there are no limits on government at all. "If the gubmit can tell multinational corps not to pull oil out of the ground, they can make me hold my breath! It produces the same molecule!" Libertarian philosophy in a nutshell.

bcrosby95 4y ago
Your post made me wonder what libertarians think about things like llcs and corporations - the legal shields they provide are a massive government subsidy.
- corrral 4y ago
  Left-libertarians often think they shouldn't be A Thing, since they're extensions of state power and, besides, left-libertarians are more concerned with large concentrations of power per se than whether those concentrations happen to be called governments. Your average common-on-the-Internet right-libertarian usually hand-waves away how they're somehow fine and part of the "natural" (I cannot roll my eyes hard enough, in case you couldn't tell) free market. Some of the softer right-libertarians (bleeding over into folks who'd likely style themselves "classical liberals" rather than libertarians) aren't as hard-line and rigid, so don't really have the dilemma to begin with, but they're much less vocal on the Internet, probably in part because they disagree with the average person a lot less than the former sort does, so it just doesn't come up as much.
- int_19h 4y ago
  Libertarians are not a hivemind. I mean, for starters, you'll have to clarify if you mean right-wing or left-wing libertarians. Speaking for myself, as a left-wing libertarian, I think that corporations, being an artificial creation of society, can come with whatever strings society deems suitable to attach to that privilege - provided that they're the same for everyone.
phpisthebest 4y ago
That is hardly the argument but it is clear you do not want to have a substantive discussion so there is little point wasting my time explaining it

jamiek88 4y ago

Well who gives a shit what libertarians think? It’s a philosophy for 12 year olds. I can come up with any old bullshit by extending arguments to a level of ludicrousness like that. Doesn’t mean you should entertain my bullshit. humans are social creatures and have alway, always, always lived in a societal hierarchy. Our only genuine political decision we can make is what kind of government we want and how much freedom to give up. The idea that we can live without giving up any freedoms to a society just means that the strongest, most ruthless person ‘wins’ and is king. This is just a fact. There is no opinion involved. And the only reason this flavor of internet libertarianism exists is because those espousing it have grown up in relative comfort with no fear of warlords.

bumby 4y ago
Please review the HN Guidelines: "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
phpisthebest 4y ago
>>Well who gives a shit what libertarians think? well the person I was responding to who specifically talked about libertarian positions. >>It’s a philosophy for 12 year olds. Only for those with a 5th grade understanding of philosophy. The rest of your comment highlights your extreme ignorance of libertarian philosophy nicely, because no where in the philosophy do we deny social hierarchy or human nature, infact the primary goal of the different philosophies is to curb the natural tendencies of human nature to seek power over others, the "most ruthless person" wins has been found through out history in all manner of non-libertarian government, and the US Constitution is the closest formation of a libertarian government and has been pretty successful at resisting those natural tendencies, to the extent we have seen revision from that it is directly due to removal libertarian ideas from the US Governmental system and replacing them with majoritarian / collectivist ideals and policies