6 ms·

With the amount of beggars in cities, I already highly distrust anyone who comes up to me to speak to me. 99 out of 100 times it is someone who tries to somehow

by sva_ 4y ago

With the amount of beggars in cities, I already highly distrust anyone who comes up to me to speak to me. 99 out of 100 times it is someone who tries to somehow enrich themselves.

naillo 4y ago
Please be more empathetic to people who beg for money.
- upupandup 4y ago
  - revolvingocelot 4y ago
    Arguments of the form "So $MISREPRESENTATION_OF_STATED_OPINION" are disappointing to see here. I don't think you really think that the grandparent is suggesting that to be "more empathetic to people who beg for money" is to invite them to Thanksgiving or give them your bed. Consider visiting Reddit, where discourse of the form "So $MISREPRESENTATION_OF_STATED_OPINION" is more accepted.
    - upupandup 4y ago
      - phpnode 4y ago
        that's not what empathy means, you don't have to house someone to feel empathy for them. In this case, I'd say don't judge them so harshly because they're a product of a failing social system. They're the consequence of society's collective decisions and priorities.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - tuxie_ 4y ago
    Is that what empathy means to you?
- tomc1985 4y ago
  Do you live somewhere that is being overrun by homeless? Like the west coast for example? Because it is really, really hard to be empathetic with the homeless folks here, based on how they behave.
  - DocTomoe 4y ago
    It is almost as if forcing people who need professional psychiatric help out of the psychiatric clinics and putting them to their 'freedom' somehow has diametral effects on societal health. Maybe you shouldn't put these people in the same category. Not everyone living in the street is the same. Some are just poor. Some need medical and/or psychiatrical help. Some may be on the street by choice (see: Hobos (meant in the 'going from town to town, often by freight train or hitchhiking' sense)).
    - tomc1985 4y ago
      The other day at the transit station there was a man sitting on a bench with a shopping cart of his stuff, having a loud argument with nobody in particular. Like shouting at the top of his lungs, for at least a half hour. A couple of weeks ago I had to avoid an altercation with a woman who talking to herself on the subway, she didn't like the way I "looked" at her as I was doing my best to mind my own business. She starts mad-dogging me and then darts off the train. Every so often a transient blocks the stoplight at a large, 6-lane intersection near my house, because he decided to ignore the crossing signal, and sometimes even the crosswalks. My young sister doesn't feel safe walking home on certain routes as there are groups of disheveled men hanging out doing nothing in particular. I've counted over a dozen of them, blocking the sidewalk and sometimes a lane or two on the street. The strip mall near my house has had to fence off certain areas open spaces because they had a habit of hosting impromptu bike chop shops. A woman who owns a local tasting room at said strip-mall has told me multiple stories of shenanigans with the local transients, as they like to get into trouble in their outdoor bathrooms, and her business has the closest key. Last week a man was sucker-punched because he asked a transient, who was sleeping in his car, to leave. (The man who got punched needed to drive to work.) Last year a woman was stabbed with a needle by a transient while waiting in line at a drive-thru. My city's local subreddits are rife with complaints and specific altercations. Most city parks are or have homeless encampments, and you can find them pretty much anywhere that there is unattended open space. My city even opened a safe zone for unhoused to camp, with police supervision and outreach resources available, and had to shut it down due to lack of use. City police generally do nothing; they are underfunded, understaffed, and still butthurt from the BLM protests and imposed COVID policies. Some of the videos that have been posted online have been downright childish. I know that not everybody is the same, and there are a handful of locals that I see repeatedly and know to be decent folk, but it is extremely difficult to be charitable with a narrative like this. And I am aware of other cities around here that have it much worse. There are areas of town that I used to enjoy walking through, but now they smell of a shit and piss. People are not quite as destitute as some of the South American cities I've walked around, but it feels like we are getting closer to that. If the homeless, as a group, would control/behave themselves people might have a different attitude. But they don't, and it takes a long time to recognize whether a specific individual is worth helping or not.
- jasonladuke0311 4y ago
  Go walk around Capitol Hill in Denver.
- cultofmetatron 4y ago
  try living in a city with a lot of them. you get tired of their shit REAL fast. I've seen too many literal dicks just getting off the BART.
- sva_ 4y ago
  Glancing over my comment again, I can see it appearing fairly heartless, if you have the archetypal image of a homeless guy who's laying at the side of the road in your head. But I don't even mean those or have that much of an issue with them (there aren't many of those here.) What I mainly had in mind is a phenomenon that may not be very common outside my country (idk). I live in a country with social healthcare and government welfare for those who have no work. The people who are running from person to person in the streets begging for money aren't really needy. They most likely already collect welfare from the government, and they additionally beg as they don't want to work, and the welfare office can't deduct that money from what they get, since it isn't documented. These are healthy looking young guys in their mid-20s or so, who are completely able-bodied, well dressed, and they're begging as if it is their fulltime job. It's apparently pretty lucrative, else there wouldn't so many of them be doing it. They've recently become a lot more brazen in their tactics and will verbally assault and sometimes even follow you around for not giving them anything. They ask for money for food as they claim to be hungry, but when you offer to buy them some food they get angry with you as well. These people aren't needy, and there are so many of them now that I've grown so tired of it that I first started completely avoiding downtown, and ultimately also moved somewhere else (there were other reasons of course.) I don't have any problem helping someone who's really down on their luck (and you can usually see it pretty easily), but I'd never give money, always offer to buy them food instead. I also point them towards various places they can go to get food/shelter/help. I'm angry at those who abuse the goodwill of people because they've turned that city I loved so much into a place where everybody always tries to quickly get-in-and-out, never look someone into their eyes, because that might prompt them to try to manipulate you into giving them money, and just generally turned downtown into a place where everyone constantly wants to rush through and avoid any contact with others. I'm not just blaming those beggars, I also blame the people who give them money. People need to stop falling for this, it turns cities into shit. Anyways, enough ranting for tonight...
jcpst 4y ago
When I was poor and eating at the soup kitchen, I spent a lot of time with people that lived on the street. Most of them were decent people in a bad situation. Sure, a healthy dose of distrust is smart. But I think it's worth it to not totally distrust anyone who is that hard up.
corrral 4y ago
Tricking you into taking flowers and then trying to charge for them is already a Whole Thing, too. Not that that makes what they did any better, but this specific behavior sets off "scam" alarm bells for me.
- sva_ 4y ago
  I mean they've been doing that in Paris for quite some time when you're walking with someone. 'What you don't want to buy roses for 50 euro? Is your girlfriend not worth it to you?' Luckily my girlfriend told the guy to put his roses some place I may not mention here.
  - corrral 4y ago
    Haha, Paris was exactly what I was thinking of. "Pretty lady, flower for you! You want flower? Flower for you, pretty flower for a pretty lady," pressing the flower toward the woman as if trying to give it away for free, and then if she takes it, "that'll be [insane price for a flower]", hand out for payment, and resisting taking it back. Your best policy in public in a major city is to internalize Tony Stark's strong aversion to being handed things.
  - JetAlone 4y ago
    Sounds to me like your girlfriend is worth having self-respect for.
djmips 4y ago
Where I grew up it seemed like a lot of people who randomly struck up a conversation wanted to recruit you into a multi level marketing organization and another bunch who wanted to recruit you to their religion. Kind of depressing that it seemed few that just wanted to talk.

by sva_ 4y ago

With the amount of beggars in cities, I already highly distrust anyone who comes up to me to speak to me. 99 out of 100 times it is someone who tries to somehow enrich themselves.

naillo 4y ago

Please be more empathetic to people who beg for money.

upupandup 4y ago
- revolvingocelot 4y ago
  Arguments of the form "So $MISREPRESENTATION_OF_STATED_OPINION" are disappointing to see here. I don't think you really think that the grandparent is suggesting that to be "more empathetic to people who beg for money" is to invite them to Thanksgiving or give them your bed. Consider visiting Reddit, where discourse of the form "So $MISREPRESENTATION_OF_STATED_OPINION" is more accepted.
  - upupandup 4y ago
    - phpnode 4y ago
      that's not what empathy means, you don't have to house someone to feel empathy for them. In this case, I'd say don't judge them so harshly because they're a product of a failing social system. They're the consequence of society's collective decisions and priorities.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- tuxie_ 4y ago
  Is that what empathy means to you?
tomc1985 4y ago
Do you live somewhere that is being overrun by homeless? Like the west coast for example? Because it is really, really hard to be empathetic with the homeless folks here, based on how they behave.
- DocTomoe 4y ago
  It is almost as if forcing people who need professional psychiatric help out of the psychiatric clinics and putting them to their 'freedom' somehow has diametral effects on societal health. Maybe you shouldn't put these people in the same category. Not everyone living in the street is the same. Some are just poor. Some need medical and/or psychiatrical help. Some may be on the street by choice (see: Hobos (meant in the 'going from town to town, often by freight train or hitchhiking' sense)).
  - tomc1985 4y ago
    The other day at the transit station there was a man sitting on a bench with a shopping cart of his stuff, having a loud argument with nobody in particular. Like shouting at the top of his lungs, for at least a half hour. A couple of weeks ago I had to avoid an altercation with a woman who talking to herself on the subway, she didn't like the way I "looked" at her as I was doing my best to mind my own business. She starts mad-dogging me and then darts off the train. Every so often a transient blocks the stoplight at a large, 6-lane intersection near my house, because he decided to ignore the crossing signal, and sometimes even the crosswalks. My young sister doesn't feel safe walking home on certain routes as there are groups of disheveled men hanging out doing nothing in particular. I've counted over a dozen of them, blocking the sidewalk and sometimes a lane or two on the street. The strip mall near my house has had to fence off certain areas open spaces because they had a habit of hosting impromptu bike chop shops. A woman who owns a local tasting room at said strip-mall has told me multiple stories of shenanigans with the local transients, as they like to get into trouble in their outdoor bathrooms, and her business has the closest key. Last week a man was sucker-punched because he asked a transient, who was sleeping in his car, to leave. (The man who got punched needed to drive to work.) Last year a woman was stabbed with a needle by a transient while waiting in line at a drive-thru. My city's local subreddits are rife with complaints and specific altercations. Most city parks are or have homeless encampments, and you can find them pretty much anywhere that there is unattended open space. My city even opened a safe zone for unhoused to camp, with police supervision and outreach resources available, and had to shut it down due to lack of use. City police generally do nothing; they are underfunded, understaffed, and still butthurt from the BLM protests and imposed COVID policies. Some of the videos that have been posted online have been downright childish. I know that not everybody is the same, and there are a handful of locals that I see repeatedly and know to be decent folk, but it is extremely difficult to be charitable with a narrative like this. And I am aware of other cities around here that have it much worse. There are areas of town that I used to enjoy walking through, but now they smell of a shit and piss. People are not quite as destitute as some of the South American cities I've walked around, but it feels like we are getting closer to that. If the homeless, as a group, would control/behave themselves people might have a different attitude. But they don't, and it takes a long time to recognize whether a specific individual is worth helping or not.
jasonladuke0311 4y ago
Go walk around Capitol Hill in Denver.
cultofmetatron 4y ago
try living in a city with a lot of them. you get tired of their shit REAL fast. I've seen too many literal dicks just getting off the BART.
sva_ 4y ago
Glancing over my comment again, I can see it appearing fairly heartless, if you have the archetypal image of a homeless guy who's laying at the side of the road in your head. But I don't even mean those or have that much of an issue with them (there aren't many of those here.) What I mainly had in mind is a phenomenon that may not be very common outside my country (idk). I live in a country with social healthcare and government welfare for those who have no work. The people who are running from person to person in the streets begging for money aren't really needy. They most likely already collect welfare from the government, and they additionally beg as they don't want to work, and the welfare office can't deduct that money from what they get, since it isn't documented. These are healthy looking young guys in their mid-20s or so, who are completely able-bodied, well dressed, and they're begging as if it is their fulltime job. It's apparently pretty lucrative, else there wouldn't so many of them be doing it. They've recently become a lot more brazen in their tactics and will verbally assault and sometimes even follow you around for not giving them anything. They ask for money for food as they claim to be hungry, but when you offer to buy them some food they get angry with you as well. These people aren't needy, and there are so many of them now that I've grown so tired of it that I first started completely avoiding downtown, and ultimately also moved somewhere else (there were other reasons of course.) I don't have any problem helping someone who's really down on their luck (and you can usually see it pretty easily), but I'd never give money, always offer to buy them food instead. I also point them towards various places they can go to get food/shelter/help. I'm angry at those who abuse the goodwill of people because they've turned that city I loved so much into a place where everybody always tries to quickly get-in-and-out, never look someone into their eyes, because that might prompt them to try to manipulate you into giving them money, and just generally turned downtown into a place where everyone constantly wants to rush through and avoid any contact with others. I'm not just blaming those beggars, I also blame the people who give them money. People need to stop falling for this, it turns cities into shit. Anyways, enough ranting for tonight...

jcpst 4y ago

When I was poor and eating at the soup kitchen, I spent a lot of time with people that lived on the street. Most of them were decent people in a bad situation. Sure, a healthy dose of distrust is smart. But I think it's worth it to not totally distrust anyone who is that hard up.

corrral 4y ago

Tricking you into taking flowers and then trying to charge for them is already a Whole Thing, too. Not that that makes what they did any better, but this specific behavior sets off "scam" alarm bells for me.

sva_ 4y ago
I mean they've been doing that in Paris for quite some time when you're walking with someone. 'What you don't want to buy roses for 50 euro? Is your girlfriend not worth it to you?' Luckily my girlfriend told the guy to put his roses some place I may not mention here.
- corrral 4y ago
  Haha, Paris was exactly what I was thinking of. "Pretty lady, flower for you! You want flower? Flower for you, pretty flower for a pretty lady," pressing the flower toward the woman as if trying to give it away for free, and then if she takes it, "that'll be [insane price for a flower]", hand out for payment, and resisting taking it back. Your best policy in public in a major city is to internalize Tony Stark's strong aversion to being handed things.
- JetAlone 4y ago
  Sounds to me like your girlfriend is worth having self-respect for.

djmips 4y ago

Where I grew up it seemed like a lot of people who randomly struck up a conversation wanted to recruit you into a multi level marketing organization and another bunch who wanted to recruit you to their religion. Kind of depressing that it seemed few that just wanted to talk.