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Social Media has largely exposed the levels of narcissism embedded in a large number of human's psychological makeup , Selfies, clout chasing and virtue signal

Social Media has largely exposed the levels of narcissism embedded in a large number of human's psychological makeup , Selfies, clout chasing and virtue signalling are ever increasing forms of narcissism that really has destroyed the internet IMO

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
It's really a shame people turned virtue signaling into a dirty world that can't be used in civil discussion. It is a great descriptor for all sorts of human behavior in all sorts of contexts. Edit: y'all are kind of proving my first point.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  I am not aware of a context where virtue signaling would be a good practice or behavior.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    I meant it's a useful and descriptive term. I abhor the behavior.
  - Zachsa999 4y ago
    I like too think a virtuous person signals virtue without being narcissistic
  - erybodyknows 4y ago
    Virtue can be practiced and even observed without being signalled.
    - tsol 4y ago
      Practicing virtue in public, even if you don't intend it that way, is signaling virtue. What is strange is how in our society virtue has to be justified. Is it virtue signaling that people dislike, or being fake?
  - afavour 4y ago
    Perhaps we're working to different definitions of the term. To me, virtue signaling is signaling (i.e. making publicly known) a virtuous act. To me that seems like an unambiguously good thing: it is likely to inspire others to similar virtuous acts, creating a feedback loop of people encouraging others to engage in good behaviour. "I voted! You should get out and vote too" feels like an example of positive virtual signaling. Broadly speaking, I think there is nothing wrong with, say, videoing yourself serving food at a soup kitchen. It's when you use that video to boost your own profile rather than the virtuous act that it becomes problematic. There are plenty of people that do that. However there are also plenty of people who interpret any public record of virtue as being inherently narcissistic and I think that's just as bad.
    - vinyl7 4y ago
      The problem with public displays of virtue is that it comes off as seeking return value for the action. Virtuous acts should be done in quiet/secret and for the simple reason for it being virtuous. Seeking some other sort of value out of it (like social recognition, social credit, youtube views which end up with ad revenue) makes the act look dishonest. The act wasn't done because they were a nice person, the act was done because they were seeking to increase their own value. The way to go about this is to do the thing without anyone knowing and without displaying it. To do it without expecting any personal gain at all. If a friend tells their friend "afavour brought me soup when I was sick, it was so sweet of them" or if someone asks you what you do in your spare time and you say "sometimes I serve at a soup kitchen." then that's fine because that kind of display, which was prompted by other people, can't really be seen as you seeking to cash out the value of the virtuous act.
      - afavour 4y ago
        > it comes off as seeking return value for the action Surely that’s in the eye of the beholder? It is possible to interpret it that way, certainly. But applying the observers value judgement (i.e. how it comes off) onto the original actor seems unfair to me. Sometimes I feel like (and I don’t mean anything personal by this) we’re all cynical bastards these days so when we see someone do something genuinely altruistic we simply cannot process it as such and immediately seek a way to dismiss it as self-serving.
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    Most people now use "virtue signaling" as as insult to quickly dismiss any person expressing ethical concerns.
    - goodpoint 4y ago
      The silent downvotes only prove my point.
  - watwut 4y ago
    Virtue signaling has similar effect as vice signaling: it signals to others what you think is good thing to do. It is statement toward rest of word.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      The signal it sends is that appearances and whatnot matter more than actual substances, that appearing to do something is more important than doing something. Bragging about how your food is cruelty free when you don't really care about the food, you care about being able to say that it's cruelty free doesn't make you against animal cruelty except by some absurdly expansive definition of "against". And there's also 800lb gorilla that is political discourse where people routinely say one thing and then not only do nothing to advance that, they live their lives by something that's close to the opposite. Rewarding virtue signaling absolves people of much of the requirement to put their money where their mouth is and relaxing that requirement is a bad thing.
      - watwut 4y ago
        First paragraph care more about what whoever does that action feels then about what impact it has. All in all, it rewards primary doing and saying nothing. Everyone else can be accused of virtue signaling.
- dools 4y ago
  Virtue signalling is a term made up by a hard right libertarian propagandist writing for the spectator as a means of silencing progressive voices online. It’s a bullshit term for which we already had a perfectly good word: hypocrisy
  - Karunamon 4y ago
    Hypocrisy is insufficiently precise. It is possible to disingenuously engage in any particular activity. If you wish to describe a specific behavior, then a better descriptor is necessary. On top of that, not all virtue signaling is necessarily disingenuous. And all terms are made up, and the political leanings of the person who supposedly coined the phrase is irrelevant to its applicability.
    - dools 4y ago
      You’re using the term disingenuous incorrectly so excuse me while I disregard your opinion on language entirely.
CPLX 4y ago
Alternately we could look at Social Media as a defective product. I think it's a much better metaphor. The product has horrible consequences and side effects. It's a for profit making entity, creating a product that often causes people to get hurt or damaged. Like lawn darts.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  Well I enjoyed Lawn Darts and disagree with the prohibition on them so if the desire would be to ban social media I would also disagree with it neither were "defective" products, just because they caused harm does not make them defective, both lawn darts, and social media are working exactly as the manufacturer intended, calling them "defective" is stretching the definition of the term if you want to make the case of regulation one does not need to nor should the term defect be perverted to be used to get around legal productions (like free speech). Cocaine is banned not because it is defective but because it is harmful, though I also disagree with the banning of cocaine generally because I do not believe it is role of government to protect someone from self harm
  - CPLX 4y ago
    The difference between the two of them is that due to historical specifics, the social media companies have Section 230, which completely immunizes them from dealing with the consequences of any of their actions. Without that they'd be subject to the same constraints as your average newspaper or TV station. Which is to say not a lot of constraints. But there would in fact be a means to address the consequences of their editorial decisions.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      Given the clear editorial choices via moderation that the platforms have chosen to undertake I would be in favor of treating them like a newspaper of TV Station
      - CPLX 4y ago
RugnirViking 4y ago
it takes what is a useful social response (I had better be kind, so other people physically present don't shun me) into a twisted spectacle (I must show me being kind to as many people as possible and in the internet I have the means to do it)
jancsika 4y ago
It's similar with C. Who knew the levels of memory unsafety embedded in a large number of human's psychological makeup! Luckily, now that Rust exists, our collective psychological makeup is proven to be much safer. But of course on a deeper physical level, hertzbleed shows that all of us are one Javascript away from becoming Manchurian candidates.
- disqard 4y ago
  Was this generated using GPT3? Lately, I find myself wondering whether I'd be able to tell the difference. In this particular case, I'm not at all sure how this string of words came to be.
  - dwringer 4y ago
    I read it as a bit of a joke about unprotected memory, human fallibility, and language complexity, in the style of a Gene Shalit review.
cratermoon 4y ago
And the dark mirror of "virtue signaling": vice signaling https://kthorjensen.medium.com/jordan-peterson-donald-trump-and-the-power-of-vice-signaling-437b213406a https://kthorjensen.medium.com/jordan-peterson-donald-trump-...
o_1 4y ago
I agree, I think the internet took all the trash content over. Reality Shows/MTV to Tick Tok. We really better filters trash content. Kind of the reason most people are here on HN.
- RulerOf 4y ago
  >We really better filters trash content. I can see it now, "Show HN: Introducing InstaGavage, force-feed all the bullshit from your socials to this neural network and let it throw out the trash."
  - Baeocystin 4y ago
    I wonder how long it would take to just evolve | /dev/null.
orthecreedence 4y ago
> Social Media has largely exposed the levels of narcissism embedded in a large number of human's psychological makeup I don't think this is entirely fair to humanity. I think social media encourages and incentivizes this behavior. Was it there before? Sure. But social media hasn't just exposed it, it has also optimized for it.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago

It's really a shame people turned virtue signaling into a dirty world that can't be used in civil discussion. It is a great descriptor for all sorts of human behavior in all sorts of contexts. Edit: y'all are kind of proving my first point.

phpisthebest 4y ago
I am not aware of a context where virtue signaling would be a good practice or behavior.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  I meant it's a useful and descriptive term. I abhor the behavior.
- Zachsa999 4y ago
  I like too think a virtuous person signals virtue without being narcissistic
- erybodyknows 4y ago
  Virtue can be practiced and even observed without being signalled.
  - tsol 4y ago
    Practicing virtue in public, even if you don't intend it that way, is signaling virtue. What is strange is how in our society virtue has to be justified. Is it virtue signaling that people dislike, or being fake?
- afavour 4y ago
  Perhaps we're working to different definitions of the term. To me, virtue signaling is signaling (i.e. making publicly known) a virtuous act. To me that seems like an unambiguously good thing: it is likely to inspire others to similar virtuous acts, creating a feedback loop of people encouraging others to engage in good behaviour. "I voted! You should get out and vote too" feels like an example of positive virtual signaling. Broadly speaking, I think there is nothing wrong with, say, videoing yourself serving food at a soup kitchen. It's when you use that video to boost your own profile rather than the virtuous act that it becomes problematic. There are plenty of people that do that. However there are also plenty of people who interpret any public record of virtue as being inherently narcissistic and I think that's just as bad.
  - vinyl7 4y ago
    The problem with public displays of virtue is that it comes off as seeking return value for the action. Virtuous acts should be done in quiet/secret and for the simple reason for it being virtuous. Seeking some other sort of value out of it (like social recognition, social credit, youtube views which end up with ad revenue) makes the act look dishonest. The act wasn't done because they were a nice person, the act was done because they were seeking to increase their own value. The way to go about this is to do the thing without anyone knowing and without displaying it. To do it without expecting any personal gain at all. If a friend tells their friend "afavour brought me soup when I was sick, it was so sweet of them" or if someone asks you what you do in your spare time and you say "sometimes I serve at a soup kitchen." then that's fine because that kind of display, which was prompted by other people, can't really be seen as you seeking to cash out the value of the virtuous act.
    - afavour 4y ago
      > it comes off as seeking return value for the action Surely that’s in the eye of the beholder? It is possible to interpret it that way, certainly. But applying the observers value judgement (i.e. how it comes off) onto the original actor seems unfair to me. Sometimes I feel like (and I don’t mean anything personal by this) we’re all cynical bastards these days so when we see someone do something genuinely altruistic we simply cannot process it as such and immediately seek a way to dismiss it as self-serving.
- goodpoint 4y ago
  Most people now use "virtue signaling" as as insult to quickly dismiss any person expressing ethical concerns.
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    The silent downvotes only prove my point.
- watwut 4y ago
  Virtue signaling has similar effect as vice signaling: it signals to others what you think is good thing to do. It is statement toward rest of word.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    The signal it sends is that appearances and whatnot matter more than actual substances, that appearing to do something is more important than doing something. Bragging about how your food is cruelty free when you don't really care about the food, you care about being able to say that it's cruelty free doesn't make you against animal cruelty except by some absurdly expansive definition of "against". And there's also 800lb gorilla that is political discourse where people routinely say one thing and then not only do nothing to advance that, they live their lives by something that's close to the opposite. Rewarding virtue signaling absolves people of much of the requirement to put their money where their mouth is and relaxing that requirement is a bad thing.
    - watwut 4y ago
      First paragraph care more about what whoever does that action feels then about what impact it has. All in all, it rewards primary doing and saying nothing. Everyone else can be accused of virtue signaling.
dools 4y ago
Virtue signalling is a term made up by a hard right libertarian propagandist writing for the spectator as a means of silencing progressive voices online. It’s a bullshit term for which we already had a perfectly good word: hypocrisy
- Karunamon 4y ago
  Hypocrisy is insufficiently precise. It is possible to disingenuously engage in any particular activity. If you wish to describe a specific behavior, then a better descriptor is necessary. On top of that, not all virtue signaling is necessarily disingenuous. And all terms are made up, and the political leanings of the person who supposedly coined the phrase is irrelevant to its applicability.
  - dools 4y ago
    You’re using the term disingenuous incorrectly so excuse me while I disregard your opinion on language entirely.

CPLX 4y ago

Alternately we could look at Social Media as a defective product. I think it's a much better metaphor. The product has horrible consequences and side effects. It's a for profit making entity, creating a product that often causes people to get hurt or damaged. Like lawn darts.

phpisthebest 4y ago
Well I enjoyed Lawn Darts and disagree with the prohibition on them so if the desire would be to ban social media I would also disagree with it neither were "defective" products, just because they caused harm does not make them defective, both lawn darts, and social media are working exactly as the manufacturer intended, calling them "defective" is stretching the definition of the term if you want to make the case of regulation one does not need to nor should the term defect be perverted to be used to get around legal productions (like free speech). Cocaine is banned not because it is defective but because it is harmful, though I also disagree with the banning of cocaine generally because I do not believe it is role of government to protect someone from self harm
- CPLX 4y ago
  The difference between the two of them is that due to historical specifics, the social media companies have Section 230, which completely immunizes them from dealing with the consequences of any of their actions. Without that they'd be subject to the same constraints as your average newspaper or TV station. Which is to say not a lot of constraints. But there would in fact be a means to address the consequences of their editorial decisions.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    Given the clear editorial choices via moderation that the platforms have chosen to undertake I would be in favor of treating them like a newspaper of TV Station
    - CPLX 4y ago

RugnirViking 4y ago

it takes what is a useful social response (I had better be kind, so other people physically present don't shun me) into a twisted spectacle (I must show me being kind to as many people as possible and in the internet I have the means to do it)

jancsika 4y ago

It's similar with C. Who knew the levels of memory unsafety embedded in a large number of human's psychological makeup! Luckily, now that Rust exists, our collective psychological makeup is proven to be much safer. But of course on a deeper physical level, hertzbleed shows that all of us are one Javascript away from becoming Manchurian candidates.

disqard 4y ago
Was this generated using GPT3? Lately, I find myself wondering whether I'd be able to tell the difference. In this particular case, I'm not at all sure how this string of words came to be.
- dwringer 4y ago
  I read it as a bit of a joke about unprotected memory, human fallibility, and language complexity, in the style of a Gene Shalit review.

cratermoon 4y ago

And the dark mirror of "virtue signaling": vice signaling https://kthorjensen.medium.com/jordan-peterson-donald-trump-and-the-power-of-vice-signaling-437b213406a https://kthorjensen.medium.com/jordan-peterson-donald-trump-...

o_1 4y ago

I agree, I think the internet took all the trash content over. Reality Shows/MTV to Tick Tok. We really better filters trash content. Kind of the reason most people are here on HN.

RulerOf 4y ago
>We really better filters trash content. I can see it now, "Show HN: Introducing InstaGavage, force-feed all the bullshit from your socials to this neural network and let it throw out the trash."
- Baeocystin 4y ago
  I wonder how long it would take to just evolve | /dev/null.

orthecreedence 4y ago

> Social Media has largely exposed the levels of narcissism embedded in a large number of human's psychological makeup I don't think this is entirely fair to humanity. I think social media encourages and incentivizes this behavior. Was it there before? Sure. But social media hasn't just exposed it, it has also optimized for it.