4 ms·

Totally agree. It is one of the perfect resources to extort people with. Unlike food the price of houses rarely drop to zero, and often go up. Like food, it is

by cies 4y ago

Totally agree. It is one of the perfect resources to extort people with. Unlike food the price of houses rarely drop to zero, and often go up. Like food, it is very essential to people. What you propose is a very socialist solution. I've read somewhere that in the USSR paying more than 4% of your income to housing was considered criminal (as they calculated that's what housing would cost using cost-based-pricing).

nickles 4y ago
> I've read somewhere that in the USSR paying more than 4% of your income to housing was considered criminal Fortunately that was the only criminal activity in the shining beacon of freedom and prosperity that was the USSR.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  If we're going to dismiss every quality and strategy of a country because of its moral crimes then everything about the US is worthless through the same path. I don't think this is a useful way to approach any of these problems, and I'm sure neither do you, so why try to score cheap points this way.
  - nickles 4y ago
    > If we're going to dismiss every quality and strategy of a country because of its moral crimes My primary intention wasn't to refer directly to the morality of the USSR. Economically speaking, the USSR was a disaster, so I'm skeptical that we should implement the policies that quite literally destroyed a nation. But yes, the USSR was a murderous state led by men who were happy to kill tens of millions of people for personal gain. I find that morally reprehensible.
    - Jcowell 4y ago
      There’s a difference between being skeptical and being dismissive. You can be skeptical, but evaluate an idea by its merit Maybe it’s something that could be a good idea under the US economic conditions, maybe not.
spaniard89277 4y ago
IDK if it's a very socialist solution, provided that it aims to increase disposable income and savings, that will pour into consumption, people starting their own businesses, etc. Think also that the program can avoid deficit by not having only low-income tenants, providing more opportunities for social mobility and allowing more consumption which means more VAT taxes, specially if you're smart enough to provide your tenants with supermarkets, bars, etc, which isn't difficult if you pack enough people and provide space for bussiness in the ground floors.
- nickles 4y ago
  > IDK if it's a very socialist solution, provided that it aims to increase disposable income and savings Socialism is a left-wing political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership. [0] Government ownership of housing, as opposed to private ownership, is unambiguously socialist policy, regardless of policy intentions. > specially if you're smart enough to provide your tenants with supermarkets, bars, etc, which isn't difficult if you pack enough people and provide space for bussiness in the ground floors. Here's the issue with central planning. How does the government know which services residents will find desirable? This difficulty is known as the local knowledge problem. I don't drink alcohol; why should I be forced to pay for a bar I don't use? And more importantly, why is the government encouraging an activity that causes the death of 140k Americans a year? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
  - spaniard89277 4y ago
    > Here's the issue with central planning. How does the government know which services residents will find desirable? I don't drink alcohol; why should my taxes pay for bars, which contribute to the death of >100k Americans a year? This difficulty is known as the local information problem. I didn't say that government runs the bussiness. The public hoosuing buildings have space at ground level that is rented for businesses. In many european contries you have supermarkets for the neighborhood in those spaces. This is not public housing, but the lowest income neighborhood in my city, serves as example of where bussineses can be located. https://www.google.es/maps/place/Gadis/@43.3576146,-8.4160739,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipPhsVyPQEgvuPi7ukIozLYF9atfvQpetilY3zby!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPhsVyPQEgvuPi7ukIozLYF9atfvQpetilY3zby%3Dw152-h86-k-no!7i2048!8i1152!4m9!1m2!2m1!1ssupermercado!3m5!1s0xd2e7c8d720f38e1:0xc0cb797eb8834c8c!8m2!3d43.3576468!4d-8.4161404!15sCgxzdXBlcm1lcmNhZG9aDiIMc3VwZXJtZXJjYWRvkgELc3VwZXJtYXJrZXQ https://www.google.es/maps/place/Gadis/@43.3576146,-8.416073... Another example: https://www.google.es/maps/place/Eroski+Center/@43.3754534,-8.4327916,3a,75y,356.81h,88.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbCZyT8qqtA5jvCUNcc2svg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DbCZyT8qqtA5jvCUNcc2svg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D10.547246%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!4m11!1m2!2m1!1seroski!3m7!1s0xd2e7c4e381e331d:0x13aae1ed17a07ad6!8m2!3d43.3755401!4d-8.4327709!14m1!1BCgIgARICCAI!15sCgZlcm9za2kiA4gBAVoIIgZlcm9za2mSAQtzdXBlcm1hcmtldJoBI0NoWkRTVWhOTUc5blMwVkpRMEZuU1VOVkxVNWlhazluRUFF https://www.google.es/maps/place/Eroski+Center/@43.3754534,-...

by cies 4y ago

nickles 4y ago

> I've read somewhere that in the USSR paying more than 4% of your income to housing was considered criminal Fortunately that was the only criminal activity in the shining beacon of freedom and prosperity that was the USSR.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
If we're going to dismiss every quality and strategy of a country because of its moral crimes then everything about the US is worthless through the same path. I don't think this is a useful way to approach any of these problems, and I'm sure neither do you, so why try to score cheap points this way.
- nickles 4y ago
  > If we're going to dismiss every quality and strategy of a country because of its moral crimes My primary intention wasn't to refer directly to the morality of the USSR. Economically speaking, the USSR was a disaster, so I'm skeptical that we should implement the policies that quite literally destroyed a nation. But yes, the USSR was a murderous state led by men who were happy to kill tens of millions of people for personal gain. I find that morally reprehensible.
  - Jcowell 4y ago
    There’s a difference between being skeptical and being dismissive. You can be skeptical, but evaluate an idea by its merit Maybe it’s something that could be a good idea under the US economic conditions, maybe not.

spaniard89277 4y ago

IDK if it's a very socialist solution, provided that it aims to increase disposable income and savings, that will pour into consumption, people starting their own businesses, etc. Think also that the program can avoid deficit by not having only low-income tenants, providing more opportunities for social mobility and allowing more consumption which means more VAT taxes, specially if you're smart enough to provide your tenants with supermarkets, bars, etc, which isn't difficult if you pack enough people and provide space for bussiness in the ground floors.

nickles 4y ago
> IDK if it's a very socialist solution, provided that it aims to increase disposable income and savings Socialism is a left-wing political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership. [0] Government ownership of housing, as opposed to private ownership, is unambiguously socialist policy, regardless of policy intentions. > specially if you're smart enough to provide your tenants with supermarkets, bars, etc, which isn't difficult if you pack enough people and provide space for bussiness in the ground floors. Here's the issue with central planning. How does the government know which services residents will find desirable? This difficulty is known as the local knowledge problem. I don't drink alcohol; why should I be forced to pay for a bar I don't use? And more importantly, why is the government encouraging an activity that causes the death of 140k Americans a year? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
- spaniard89277 4y ago
  > Here's the issue with central planning. How does the government know which services residents will find desirable? I don't drink alcohol; why should my taxes pay for bars, which contribute to the death of >100k Americans a year? This difficulty is known as the local information problem. I didn't say that government runs the bussiness. The public hoosuing buildings have space at ground level that is rented for businesses. In many european contries you have supermarkets for the neighborhood in those spaces. This is not public housing, but the lowest income neighborhood in my city, serves as example of where bussineses can be located. https://www.google.es/maps/place/Gadis/@43.3576146,-8.4160739,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipPhsVyPQEgvuPi7ukIozLYF9atfvQpetilY3zby!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipPhsVyPQEgvuPi7ukIozLYF9atfvQpetilY3zby%3Dw152-h86-k-no!7i2048!8i1152!4m9!1m2!2m1!1ssupermercado!3m5!1s0xd2e7c8d720f38e1:0xc0cb797eb8834c8c!8m2!3d43.3576468!4d-8.4161404!15sCgxzdXBlcm1lcmNhZG9aDiIMc3VwZXJtZXJjYWRvkgELc3VwZXJtYXJrZXQ https://www.google.es/maps/place/Gadis/@43.3576146,-8.416073... Another example: https://www.google.es/maps/place/Eroski+Center/@43.3754534,-8.4327916,3a,75y,356.81h,88.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbCZyT8qqtA5jvCUNcc2svg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DbCZyT8qqtA5jvCUNcc2svg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D10.547246%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!4m11!1m2!2m1!1seroski!3m7!1s0xd2e7c4e381e331d:0x13aae1ed17a07ad6!8m2!3d43.3755401!4d-8.4327709!14m1!1BCgIgARICCAI!15sCgZlcm9za2kiA4gBAVoIIgZlcm9za2mSAQtzdXBlcm1hcmtldJoBI0NoWkRTVWhOTUc5blMwVkpRMEZuU1VOVkxVNWlhazluRUFF https://www.google.es/maps/place/Eroski+Center/@43.3754534,-...