4 ms·

The unit is not GWh. It's "GWh of storage." It's ironic that this thread started with you lamenting that units are used incorrectly.

jupp0r 4y ago
The unit is GWh, the physical quantity it describes is “energy storage capacity”. Those two are not the same. Take this example: Unit: second, physical quantity: could be things like “time”, “specific impulse”, “distance” (light-second), etc. Many physical quantities can be measured in seconds.
- adament 4y ago
  Is it really true that you can measure distance in seconds? I think light-seconds are different units from seconds hence why they measure distances, similar to how Watt-hours and Watts are not the same unit. If a second was a measure of distance then speed would be unit-less (second / second) as opposed to the speed of light which is light-second / second ≈ 3e8 m/s.
  - jupp0r 4y ago
    You are right, light seconds don't fit in well. My point still stands, you can't really know what physical quantity is measured just from looking at the unit alone, that's now what units are made for.
toxik 4y ago
You can still divide GWh of capacity by a year and get GW of capacity, ie the instantaneous production rate of capacity.
- atwood22 4y ago
  No you cannot. Watt hour is a unit for energy derived by applying power over time. That’s why when you divide by a period of time you’re left with power. The unit “GWh of storage” is a complex unit that’s not easily broken up. When you divide by time you get a new unit, “GWh of storage per unit time”
  - jupp0r 4y ago
    You are conflating two different concepts here. One is "unit" which is a measure of a physical quantity (ie "GWh"). The second is the physical quantity itself ("battery storage capacity"). The relationship between the two is that a unit can be used to quantitatively describe a physical quantity ("5 GWh of battery storage capacity"). Physical quantities like "battery storage capacity" can usually be quantified in different units which can be converted to each other ("5000kWh = 5GWh = 1.8 * 10^13 J"). The unit itself ("GWh") doesn't describe precisely what physical quantity is being measured. It could be mechanical energy stored in a flywheel, the total heat output of a chemical reaction, battery storage capacity, etc.
    - atwood22 4y ago
      You’re fundamentally misunderstanding the units. I don’t know what else to say. “Watt hour of storage” is not the same as a Watt hour. You can’t divide by time to get power. That should be obvious.
      - jupp0r 4y ago
        "Watt hour of storage" is not a unit, it's the physical quantity "storage" quantified by the unit "Watt hour", ie the combination of the two.
        atwood22 4y ago
        That’s what you’re not understanding. “GWh of storage” is a unit. It’s not an SI unit, but it is a unit, i.e. a thing you can use to measure something. The production of this factory is being measured in this storage unit. Watt is also a unit, a unit to measure power. There is no way to convert a unit of power to this unit of storage.
        adament 4y ago
        Do you have a reference for the definition of this energy storage unit? I have never heard of it before and my attempts at searching the web seem to contradict you. Wikipedia writes: “Storage capacity is the amount of energy extracted from an energy storage device or system; usually measured in joules or kilowatt-hours and their multiples” https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/electricity-and-energy-storage.aspx https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-fu... writes: “Storage systems for electricity include battery, flywheel, compressed air, and pumped hydro storage. Any systems are limited in the total amount of energy they can store. Their energy capacity is expressed in megawatt-hours (MWh), and the power, or maximum output at a given time, is expressed in megawatts of electric power (MW or MWe).” Both of which to my layman reading opposes your claim.

jupp0r 4y ago

The unit is GWh, the physical quantity it describes is “energy storage capacity”. Those two are not the same. Take this example: Unit: second, physical quantity: could be things like “time”, “specific impulse”, “distance” (light-second), etc. Many physical quantities can be measured in seconds.

adament 4y ago
Is it really true that you can measure distance in seconds? I think light-seconds are different units from seconds hence why they measure distances, similar to how Watt-hours and Watts are not the same unit. If a second was a measure of distance then speed would be unit-less (second / second) as opposed to the speed of light which is light-second / second ≈ 3e8 m/s.
- jupp0r 4y ago
  You are right, light seconds don't fit in well. My point still stands, you can't really know what physical quantity is measured just from looking at the unit alone, that's now what units are made for.

toxik 4y ago

You can still divide GWh of capacity by a year and get GW of capacity, ie the instantaneous production rate of capacity.

atwood22 4y ago
No you cannot. Watt hour is a unit for energy derived by applying power over time. That’s why when you divide by a period of time you’re left with power. The unit “GWh of storage” is a complex unit that’s not easily broken up. When you divide by time you get a new unit, “GWh of storage per unit time”
- jupp0r 4y ago
  You are conflating two different concepts here. One is "unit" which is a measure of a physical quantity (ie "GWh"). The second is the physical quantity itself ("battery storage capacity"). The relationship between the two is that a unit can be used to quantitatively describe a physical quantity ("5 GWh of battery storage capacity"). Physical quantities like "battery storage capacity" can usually be quantified in different units which can be converted to each other ("5000kWh = 5GWh = 1.8 * 10^13 J"). The unit itself ("GWh") doesn't describe precisely what physical quantity is being measured. It could be mechanical energy stored in a flywheel, the total heat output of a chemical reaction, battery storage capacity, etc.
  - atwood22 4y ago
    You’re fundamentally misunderstanding the units. I don’t know what else to say. “Watt hour of storage” is not the same as a Watt hour. You can’t divide by time to get power. That should be obvious.
    - jupp0r 4y ago
      "Watt hour of storage" is not a unit, it's the physical quantity "storage" quantified by the unit "Watt hour", ie the combination of the two.
      - atwood22 4y ago
        That’s what you’re not understanding. “GWh of storage” is a unit. It’s not an SI unit, but it is a unit, i.e. a thing you can use to measure something. The production of this factory is being measured in this storage unit. Watt is also a unit, a unit to measure power. There is no way to convert a unit of power to this unit of storage.
        adament 4y ago
        Do you have a reference for the definition of this energy storage unit? I have never heard of it before and my attempts at searching the web seem to contradict you. Wikipedia writes: “Storage capacity is the amount of energy extracted from an energy storage device or system; usually measured in joules or kilowatt-hours and their multiples” https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/electricity-and-energy-storage.aspx https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-fu... writes: “Storage systems for electricity include battery, flywheel, compressed air, and pumped hydro storage. Any systems are limited in the total amount of energy they can store. Their energy capacity is expressed in megawatt-hours (MWh), and the power, or maximum output at a given time, is expressed in megawatts of electric power (MW or MWe).” Both of which to my layman reading opposes your claim.