7 ms·

It's unfortunate that the article doesn't mention the great villain of sleep debt, caffeine. The substance we use to wake up is the one taking away our deep sle

It's unfortunate that the article doesn't mention the great villain of sleep debt, caffeine. The substance we use to wake up is the one taking away our deep sleep. https://michaelpollan.com/books/caffeine-how-coffee-and-tea-created-the-modern-world/ https://michaelpollan.com/books/caffeine-how-coffee-and-tea-...

jiveturkey 4y ago
too bad this is only available in audio format
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  I get text, but I’m also an NYT subscriber.
alfiedotwtf 4y ago
Thanks for the recommendation. Added to Audible!
SnowHill9902 4y ago
As NNT says: coffee in the morning, chamomile in the afternoon, sweet wine at night.
- bitexploder 4y ago
  Avoid alcohol before bed. In any quantity. It is incredibly disruptive to sleep cycles. You will fall asleep, but quality is not good. There is a reason many studies use it to disrupt REM.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    > Avoid alcohol before bed. Avoid alcohol, period. Your body and mind will thank you.
    - the_af 4y ago
      But good wine is delicious, so do enjoy alcohol (in moderation).
      - CamelRocketFish 4y ago
        It is delicious but no amount is safe. https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641618937/no-amount-of-alcohol-is-good-for-your-health-global-study-claims https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641618937/no-amount-of-alcoho...
        the_af 4y ago
        Yes, understood. There are many things in life for which no amount is safe. So do drink wine in moderation, if you enjoy it like me. Wine is one of the finest things in life. Coffee also is. A joyless life of maximum safety is not worth living.
        CamelRocketFish 4y ago
        That is a good conclusion, I agree.
  - the_only_law 4y ago
    > It is incredibly disruptive to sleep cycles. Extremely apparent too. It'll put me out real fast, but I'll be awake in a few hours and then repeat a few more times till the sun is up and you gave a splitting headache.
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    What is the time of day, before which, it is possible to drink a glass of wine and not have REM significantly disrupted?
    - bitexploder 4y ago
      I think you need a couple hours per unit (a 5% ABV beer, etc). You have ti have fully processed the alcohol and given your brain chemicals a little time to settle down. So you could conceivably drink a few beers or glasses of wine during the day and stop in the early evening and be mostly fine. But right before bed if it hits your first sleep cycle it is kind of a disaster because the whole first cycle alpha, to beta or however it sequences gets messed up and a lot of people float between REM and deep sleep without getting either in the first half of their sleep (assuming its 8 hours).
pizzathyme 4y ago
Is it problematic if you drink caffeine at all? Or only if you drink it late in the afternoon or night?
- gxt 4y ago
  Depends on a lot of factors. detoxing completely takes days/weeks.
- creakingstairs 4y ago
  Caffeine's half life is around 5 hours[1], I'd say it's fine if you drink it in the morning. I'm quite sensitive to caffeine and I struggle to sleep if I drink coffee any time after noon. It's a pity because I love the taste of coffee and Oolong tea :( [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK223808/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK223808/
  - wbc 4y ago
    can't you just drink decaf?
    - creakingstairs 4y ago
      I do! but decaf tastes different :p Edit: also not all cafes have decaf or they have limited options where I live.
      - flappyeagle 4y ago
        I recommend the house decaf from Devicion or Linea. I’ve tried every high end decaf on the market and those are the winners so far
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    There's variability in caffeine's half life from person to person, so everyone should experiment. I only drink it in the first 3 hours of my day, but even then, if I drink too much it negatively impacts sleep onset.
electriclove 4y ago
Why all the downvotes? Caffeine definitely messes up my sleep
purple_ferret 4y ago
For me, it was more like the American education system

jiveturkey 4y ago

too bad this is only available in audio format

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
I get text, but I’m also an NYT subscriber.

alfiedotwtf 4y ago

Thanks for the recommendation. Added to Audible!

SnowHill9902 4y ago

As NNT says: coffee in the morning, chamomile in the afternoon, sweet wine at night.

bitexploder 4y ago
Avoid alcohol before bed. In any quantity. It is incredibly disruptive to sleep cycles. You will fall asleep, but quality is not good. There is a reason many studies use it to disrupt REM.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- andsoitis 4y ago
  > Avoid alcohol before bed. Avoid alcohol, period. Your body and mind will thank you.
  - the_af 4y ago
    But good wine is delicious, so do enjoy alcohol (in moderation).
    - CamelRocketFish 4y ago
      It is delicious but no amount is safe. https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641618937/no-amount-of-alcohol-is-good-for-your-health-global-study-claims https://www.npr.org/2018/08/24/641618937/no-amount-of-alcoho...
      - the_af 4y ago
        Yes, understood. There are many things in life for which no amount is safe. So do drink wine in moderation, if you enjoy it like me. Wine is one of the finest things in life. Coffee also is. A joyless life of maximum safety is not worth living.
        CamelRocketFish 4y ago
        That is a good conclusion, I agree.
- the_only_law 4y ago
  > It is incredibly disruptive to sleep cycles. Extremely apparent too. It'll put me out real fast, but I'll be awake in a few hours and then repeat a few more times till the sun is up and you gave a splitting headache.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  What is the time of day, before which, it is possible to drink a glass of wine and not have REM significantly disrupted?
  - bitexploder 4y ago
    I think you need a couple hours per unit (a 5% ABV beer, etc). You have ti have fully processed the alcohol and given your brain chemicals a little time to settle down. So you could conceivably drink a few beers or glasses of wine during the day and stop in the early evening and be mostly fine. But right before bed if it hits your first sleep cycle it is kind of a disaster because the whole first cycle alpha, to beta or however it sequences gets messed up and a lot of people float between REM and deep sleep without getting either in the first half of their sleep (assuming its 8 hours).

pizzathyme 4y ago

Is it problematic if you drink caffeine at all? Or only if you drink it late in the afternoon or night?

gxt 4y ago
Depends on a lot of factors. detoxing completely takes days/weeks.
creakingstairs 4y ago
Caffeine's half life is around 5 hours[1], I'd say it's fine if you drink it in the morning. I'm quite sensitive to caffeine and I struggle to sleep if I drink coffee any time after noon. It's a pity because I love the taste of coffee and Oolong tea :( [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK223808/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK223808/
- wbc 4y ago
  can't you just drink decaf?
  - creakingstairs 4y ago
    I do! but decaf tastes different :p Edit: also not all cafes have decaf or they have limited options where I live.
    - flappyeagle 4y ago
      I recommend the house decaf from Devicion or Linea. I’ve tried every high end decaf on the market and those are the winners so far
- hackerlight 4y ago
  There's variability in caffeine's half life from person to person, so everyone should experiment. I only drink it in the first 3 hours of my day, but even then, if I drink too much it negatively impacts sleep onset.

electriclove 4y ago

Why all the downvotes? Caffeine definitely messes up my sleep

purple_ferret 4y ago

For me, it was more like the American education system