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Uber bet the company on robotaxis and lost. Tesla is still building very good cars that happen to not be able to drive themselves. Just like every other car. If

Uber bet the company on robotaxis and lost. Tesla is still building very good cars that happen to not be able to drive themselves. Just like every other car. If they could lose their obsession with self-driving and just focus on their incredible cars, they'd still make money.

rootusrootus 4y ago
> If they could lose their obsession with self-driving and just focus on their incredible cars, they'd still make money. They may want to think about that strategy soon. Model 3 is starting to seem dated (not to mention Model S, which is ten years old). There are very competitive alternatives on the market now that have strengths where Tesla is weak, and which are not especially weak in the areas Tesla is strong.
- notJim 4y ago
  In what sense is the Model 3 seeming dated? It's still one of the best electric cars on important measures like range and efficiency. It also has access to hands down the best charging network and is well loved by its owners, despite the well-documented problems.
  - bhauer 4y ago
    Bjørn Nyland's review of the 2022 Model 3 Performance [1] confirms your view that the Model 3 is absolutely not dated. He tests scores of EVs and still considers the Model 3 the best balance of comfort, features, technology, performance, etc. If anybody here is seriously concerned that the Model 3 may be "dated," I suggest watching the video below. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdMwGJBFUd4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdMwGJBFUd4
    - ahahahahah 4y ago
      Hahaha. Yes, very honest to link to a massive fanboy as though he's an unbiased source.
      - mikeyouse 4y ago
        Someone who's apparently been given 4 teslas by advertising his referral code during his video reviews.. good lord. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Nyland_(YouTuber)#Winner_of_four_Teslas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Nyland_(YouTuber)#W...
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    Eh, looks dated to me. But I had an early one for a while. They're everywhere (at this point I lump 3 & Y together since for all practical purposes they're the same design). Range is okay, but Tesla overestimates. Mine lost about 1.2 miles of range for every mile driven, and as a practical matter it was more of a 200 mile car than a 300 mile car, unless you really wrung it out. There are a bunch of 300+ mile EVs either on the roads now or releasing in the next few months. The only Tesla that has a range worth bragging about is the 400 mile version of the Model S. I do look forward (hopefully!) to regular cars having that kind of range, instead of just the top end ones. I personally think Tesla is playing with fire leaving the quality so low. Well over half of all Model 3s have to return for repair within the first month. That's terrible. Recall how long it's taken other domestic manufacturers to regain any kind of reputation for quality, and even then many people will never believe they make good cars. For what a Tesla costs, people have high expectations. They're enjoying fad status right now, and that's great, but there is no shortage of Tesla owners already who've sworn off ever buying another one.
- dirkg 4y ago
  Model 3 is still the best electric car for most people. Its just too expensive now but so are others. No one else has a battery thats as efficient, the charging network, convenience features like key card, integrated navigation (although CarPlay/Android Auto are good too), the handling is much sportier, they hold their resale value, and no dealerships.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    For a sedan, it's pretty compelling. But I expect my wife's next daily driver to be a crossover size, and more likely than not (at this point) a Mach-E. The range is there, the interior is good, CarPlay, and $15K less than a Model Y. There are certainly some questions that are hard to answer. Maybe the Tesla will continue to hold value. But given that I see them everywhere now, they're feeling more like a commodity every day. I'm not sure how it will play out, the market is dynamic and recent events have been very disruptive. All EVs are selling out months ahead of production at this point.
- misiti3780 4y ago
  what planet are you living on, the Model is was refreshed less than 1 year ago, and the new version is amazing.
ifaxmycodetok8s 4y ago
> focus on their incredible cars They have terrible manufacturing quality. The screens melt in Arizona heat. Maybe the ride is cool and feels good, but the car itself is not incredible.
- bhauer 4y ago
  > The screens melt in Arizona heat. That's a very old talking point about the original Model S screens from ~2012. Do you have any recent justification for this claim?
  - idop 4y ago
    https://reddit.com/comments/vt7w3d https://reddit.com/comments/vt7w3d
    - powerhour 4y ago
      Yeah but that was literally a week ago, got anything more recent?
      - bhauer 4y ago
        About a 2013 vehicle. You need to be better than this to be convincing, especially with a green account.
    - HanayamaTriplet 4y ago
      I'm no fan of Tesla, but to be fair, the OP answers here that this it is 2013 model, so this is still an example of a defect from ~2012: https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/vt7w3d/my_teslas_screen_is_melting/if6x9nf/?context=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/vt7w3d/my_teslas...
  - theluketaylor 4y ago
    How many other cars do you know that turn their A/C on while stationary for ‘cabin overheat protection’? My 2021 model 3 did that this week while sitting in the sun in northern Ontario and was helpful enough to send a push notification to let me know. This is not to helpfully make sure the driver gets into a nice cool car when they finish their errand. It’s because the non-automotive grade screen isn’t rated or tested above 40C and were failing in heat. Rather than upgrade the part and do a recall Tesla opted to just use battery to keep the cabin below 40-45C. I love EVs, but that’s some pretty dodgy behaviour.
aeturnum 4y ago
They are very much "default alive" BUT I get the sense that a lot of the company's plans and valuation are based on the idea that Tesla will not "just" produce competitive electric cars. They could make money just doing that - but they would never meet the expectations around their company's' trajectory that way and so they would be a "bad" investment (in ROI terms). So I think that everyone who is still working on the "more than a car maker" goal is going to insist the company will be more than that until they really can't.
- elliekelly 4y ago
  Their leadership also doesn’t know when to STFU. There was a time when Tesla was _the_ luxury electric vehicle. But Musk is polarizing. He’s isolating formerly loyal customers and more and more compelling alternatives are coming to market every day.
dirkg 4y ago
Tesla is so overvalued only because of their claims of self driving. Musk utters a lot of bs but he's right that without this Tesla is doomed. They have a big head start, but other car companies are now investing much more in battery tech etc and will quickly catch up. Not to mention Tesla's have terrible build quality, they have a lot of shady business practices like overcounting sales, reusing sold parts etc which came out in the recent leak. Thing like the 4860 battery which were so hyped turn out to be not that much better. FSD is years away. Stop selling vaporware. What they need to focus on is things they innovated on like OTA updates, integrated systems, no dealerships etc.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

rootusrootus 4y ago

> If they could lose their obsession with self-driving and just focus on their incredible cars, they'd still make money. They may want to think about that strategy soon. Model 3 is starting to seem dated (not to mention Model S, which is ten years old). There are very competitive alternatives on the market now that have strengths where Tesla is weak, and which are not especially weak in the areas Tesla is strong.

notJim 4y ago
In what sense is the Model 3 seeming dated? It's still one of the best electric cars on important measures like range and efficiency. It also has access to hands down the best charging network and is well loved by its owners, despite the well-documented problems.
- bhauer 4y ago
  Bjørn Nyland's review of the 2022 Model 3 Performance [1] confirms your view that the Model 3 is absolutely not dated. He tests scores of EVs and still considers the Model 3 the best balance of comfort, features, technology, performance, etc. If anybody here is seriously concerned that the Model 3 may be "dated," I suggest watching the video below. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdMwGJBFUd4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdMwGJBFUd4
  - ahahahahah 4y ago
    Hahaha. Yes, very honest to link to a massive fanboy as though he's an unbiased source.
    - mikeyouse 4y ago
      Someone who's apparently been given 4 teslas by advertising his referral code during his video reviews.. good lord. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Nyland_(YouTuber)#Winner_of_four_Teslas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Nyland_(YouTuber)#W...
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Eh, looks dated to me. But I had an early one for a while. They're everywhere (at this point I lump 3 & Y together since for all practical purposes they're the same design). Range is okay, but Tesla overestimates. Mine lost about 1.2 miles of range for every mile driven, and as a practical matter it was more of a 200 mile car than a 300 mile car, unless you really wrung it out. There are a bunch of 300+ mile EVs either on the roads now or releasing in the next few months. The only Tesla that has a range worth bragging about is the 400 mile version of the Model S. I do look forward (hopefully!) to regular cars having that kind of range, instead of just the top end ones. I personally think Tesla is playing with fire leaving the quality so low. Well over half of all Model 3s have to return for repair within the first month. That's terrible. Recall how long it's taken other domestic manufacturers to regain any kind of reputation for quality, and even then many people will never believe they make good cars. For what a Tesla costs, people have high expectations. They're enjoying fad status right now, and that's great, but there is no shortage of Tesla owners already who've sworn off ever buying another one.
dirkg 4y ago
Model 3 is still the best electric car for most people. Its just too expensive now but so are others. No one else has a battery thats as efficient, the charging network, convenience features like key card, integrated navigation (although CarPlay/Android Auto are good too), the handling is much sportier, they hold their resale value, and no dealerships.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  For a sedan, it's pretty compelling. But I expect my wife's next daily driver to be a crossover size, and more likely than not (at this point) a Mach-E. The range is there, the interior is good, CarPlay, and $15K less than a Model Y. There are certainly some questions that are hard to answer. Maybe the Tesla will continue to hold value. But given that I see them everywhere now, they're feeling more like a commodity every day. I'm not sure how it will play out, the market is dynamic and recent events have been very disruptive. All EVs are selling out months ahead of production at this point.
misiti3780 4y ago
what planet are you living on, the Model is was refreshed less than 1 year ago, and the new version is amazing.

ifaxmycodetok8s 4y ago

> focus on their incredible cars They have terrible manufacturing quality. The screens melt in Arizona heat. Maybe the ride is cool and feels good, but the car itself is not incredible.

bhauer 4y ago
> The screens melt in Arizona heat. That's a very old talking point about the original Model S screens from ~2012. Do you have any recent justification for this claim?
- idop 4y ago
  https://reddit.com/comments/vt7w3d https://reddit.com/comments/vt7w3d
  - powerhour 4y ago
    Yeah but that was literally a week ago, got anything more recent?
    - bhauer 4y ago
      About a 2013 vehicle. You need to be better than this to be convincing, especially with a green account.
  - HanayamaTriplet 4y ago
    I'm no fan of Tesla, but to be fair, the OP answers here that this it is 2013 model, so this is still an example of a defect from ~2012: https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/vt7w3d/my_teslas_screen_is_melting/if6x9nf/?context=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/vt7w3d/my_teslas...
- theluketaylor 4y ago
  How many other cars do you know that turn their A/C on while stationary for ‘cabin overheat protection’? My 2021 model 3 did that this week while sitting in the sun in northern Ontario and was helpful enough to send a push notification to let me know. This is not to helpfully make sure the driver gets into a nice cool car when they finish their errand. It’s because the non-automotive grade screen isn’t rated or tested above 40C and were failing in heat. Rather than upgrade the part and do a recall Tesla opted to just use battery to keep the cabin below 40-45C. I love EVs, but that’s some pretty dodgy behaviour.

aeturnum 4y ago

They are very much "default alive" BUT I get the sense that a lot of the company's plans and valuation are based on the idea that Tesla will not "just" produce competitive electric cars. They could make money just doing that - but they would never meet the expectations around their company's' trajectory that way and so they would be a "bad" investment (in ROI terms). So I think that everyone who is still working on the "more than a car maker" goal is going to insist the company will be more than that until they really can't.

elliekelly 4y ago
Their leadership also doesn’t know when to STFU. There was a time when Tesla was _the_ luxury electric vehicle. But Musk is polarizing. He’s isolating formerly loyal customers and more and more compelling alternatives are coming to market every day.

dirkg 4y ago

Tesla is so overvalued only because of their claims of self driving. Musk utters a lot of bs but he's right that without this Tesla is doomed. They have a big head start, but other car companies are now investing much more in battery tech etc and will quickly catch up. Not to mention Tesla's have terrible build quality, they have a lot of shady business practices like overcounting sales, reusing sold parts etc which came out in the recent leak. Thing like the 4860 battery which were so hyped turn out to be not that much better. FSD is years away. Stop selling vaporware. What they need to focus on is things they innovated on like OTA updates, integrated systems, no dealerships etc.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]