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I don't plan to let mine have their own cell phones (we'll probably get a dumbphone for them to share when they go out places or for their friends to call them,

I don't plan to let mine have their own cell phones (we'll probably get a dumbphone for them to share when they go out places or for their friends to call them, as they get a bit older) until they can pay for the phone and plan themselves. If they stop paying for the plan, I'll lock the MAC out of our wifi. Can't pay for it, not ready for it. 8 year olds shouldn't have a smartphone. [EDIT] Just to back up your "if you can't pay for it, you don't get it" approach, that is. Strong agreement. Risky perks like Internet access must be earned. As for video games, the Switch is nice because you can easily physically remove it to somewhere else without having to unplug a bunch of stuff. Switch isn't there = no video games right now. Switch is there = video games are OK. Zero monitoring required.

larrik 4y ago
This was my plan too, but when they hit middle school and are literally the only kid without a phone, and it is the difference between being invited places vs not, it just doesn't work.
- corrral 4y ago
  Depends a lot on the school. Locally, in public schools, half or more of kids have their own smartphone by fourth grade. The situation at at least some private schools is very different. Low rates of ownership up until 8th grade or so. Helps that some of the private schools haven't gone batshit insane and started letting kids carry their phones around with them all day, like, inexplicably, all of the public schools have.
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    >haven't gone batshit insane and started letting kids carry their phones around with them all day Would you expand on why this is "batshit insane"? Phones are one of the most ubiquitous pieces of tech on the planet, have several very beneficial uses, make it easier to connect and stay in touch with friends, etc. Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of "batshit insane" to me.
    - corrral 4y ago
      > Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of "batshit insane" to me. They do not and cannot realistically do this. Meanwhile, it's like they're letting them walk around with gameboys that can also be (and constantly are) used to clandestinely bully people and take creepy photos and share them and shit. It's plainly insane. [EDIT] Further, they're at school. How much "stay[ing] in touch with their friends" do they need to do?! They're either in class, so shouldn't be fucking around on their phones (the problem: they do, a lot, and at least around here most admin won't take their phones away or ban them from having phones at school for it) or they're between classes or at lunch or whatever and can just talk to their friends.
      - ziddoap 4y ago
        >They do not and cannot realistically do this I guess we disagree on the fundamentals. I believe kids can be taught how to interact with technology responsibly. In fact, my whole goal as a parent is to teach my kid how to responsibly navigate through life (which has increasing amounts of technology that they must eventually learn how to interact with). Sometimes they need a bit more hand-holding (e.g. parental controls on a phone so it isn't a gameboy) until we can properly discuss something and settle on appropriate boundries. Other times they surprise me with how responsible they are. But if you're starting from a position of "kids can't learn to use a phone responsibly", I'm not sure what to say.
        corrral 4y ago
        > I believe kids can be taught how to interact with technology responsibly. A school cannot do this while doing all the other stuff they have to do, and you don't get to teach your kids' peers not to do horrible things with their devices. AFAI am concerned teaching them responsible use would include teaching them that a smartphone has no place in school. Shit, they never let us carry dumb phones and it was only near the end we could even keep them in our lockers, and that was the right decision. I don't think they let our predecessors carry Electronic Football around at school, either, and that was also the right call, despite those devices posing ~no danger and being about 1% as disruptive as a smartphone.
spunker540 4y ago
Lol— I had a friend whose parents took this approach. The parents eventually gave in because they got tired of never being able to reach their son through failed attempts to call friends (like me) in an effort to reach him. Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old (still not really working age but definitely socializing independently age).
- corrral 4y ago
  Hence the shared dumbphone to take places. If we have to, we'll get one for each. No personal smartphones until they can pay for it themselves, at which point I reckon that's proof enough that they're responsible enough for it until they prove otherwise. [EDIT] Also: > Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old (still not really working age but definitely socializing independently age). I started my first job at 15, as did tons of my classmates. Is that no longer a fairly ordinary age for a first job? Has it changed that much changed in a bit over two decades?
  - chucksta 4y ago
    AFAIK nothings really changed, but 14 has been on the fringe of legal employment age in most scenarios for a long time and is regulated. 16+ is fair game, plus depending on location there is the whole issue about how they get to work.
josephcsible 4y ago
Is your goal to socially stunt all of your kids? Because that's what happens when they go for years being the only ones in their peer groups with substantially less ability to communicate with each other.
paulcole 4y ago
Here’s a data point from someone whose parents kept technology away from me as a pre-teen/teenager as some sort of character building I-know-best exercise: They’re not a part of my life.
- mrtweetyhack 4y ago
- UncleEntity 4y ago
  Really? My parents did some pretty messed up things to try to get me to be a better behaved kid, the ‘70s and ‘80s were a different time, and I have no resentment against them because they tried their (probably misguided) best. As kids go I was admittedly pretty difficult but the army straightened me out when I basically had the choice of joining at 17 or, who knows, didn’t see any other options at the time.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    > the ‘70s and ‘80s were a different time You are correct.

larrik 4y ago

This was my plan too, but when they hit middle school and are literally the only kid without a phone, and it is the difference between being invited places vs not, it just doesn't work.

corrral 4y ago
Depends a lot on the school. Locally, in public schools, half or more of kids have their own smartphone by fourth grade. The situation at at least some private schools is very different. Low rates of ownership up until 8th grade or so. Helps that some of the private schools haven't gone batshit insane and started letting kids carry their phones around with them all day, like, inexplicably, all of the public schools have.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  >haven't gone batshit insane and started letting kids carry their phones around with them all day Would you expand on why this is "batshit insane"? Phones are one of the most ubiquitous pieces of tech on the planet, have several very beneficial uses, make it easier to connect and stay in touch with friends, etc. Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of "batshit insane" to me.
  - corrral 4y ago
    > Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of "batshit insane" to me. They do not and cannot realistically do this. Meanwhile, it's like they're letting them walk around with gameboys that can also be (and constantly are) used to clandestinely bully people and take creepy photos and share them and shit. It's plainly insane. [EDIT] Further, they're at school. How much "stay[ing] in touch with their friends" do they need to do?! They're either in class, so shouldn't be fucking around on their phones (the problem: they do, a lot, and at least around here most admin won't take their phones away or ban them from having phones at school for it) or they're between classes or at lunch or whatever and can just talk to their friends.
    - ziddoap 4y ago
      >They do not and cannot realistically do this I guess we disagree on the fundamentals. I believe kids can be taught how to interact with technology responsibly. In fact, my whole goal as a parent is to teach my kid how to responsibly navigate through life (which has increasing amounts of technology that they must eventually learn how to interact with). Sometimes they need a bit more hand-holding (e.g. parental controls on a phone so it isn't a gameboy) until we can properly discuss something and settle on appropriate boundries. Other times they surprise me with how responsible they are. But if you're starting from a position of "kids can't learn to use a phone responsibly", I'm not sure what to say.
      - corrral 4y ago
        > I believe kids can be taught how to interact with technology responsibly. A school cannot do this while doing all the other stuff they have to do, and you don't get to teach your kids' peers not to do horrible things with their devices. AFAI am concerned teaching them responsible use would include teaching them that a smartphone has no place in school. Shit, they never let us carry dumb phones and it was only near the end we could even keep them in our lockers, and that was the right decision. I don't think they let our predecessors carry Electronic Football around at school, either, and that was also the right call, despite those devices posing ~no danger and being about 1% as disruptive as a smartphone.

spunker540 4y ago

Lol— I had a friend whose parents took this approach. The parents eventually gave in because they got tired of never being able to reach their son through failed attempts to call friends (like me) in an effort to reach him. Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old (still not really working age but definitely socializing independently age).

corrral 4y ago
Hence the shared dumbphone to take places. If we have to, we'll get one for each. No personal smartphones until they can pay for it themselves, at which point I reckon that's proof enough that they're responsible enough for it until they prove otherwise. [EDIT] Also: > Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old (still not really working age but definitely socializing independently age). I started my first job at 15, as did tons of my classmates. Is that no longer a fairly ordinary age for a first job? Has it changed that much changed in a bit over two decades?
- chucksta 4y ago
  AFAIK nothings really changed, but 14 has been on the fringe of legal employment age in most scenarios for a long time and is regulated. 16+ is fair game, plus depending on location there is the whole issue about how they get to work.

josephcsible 4y ago

Is your goal to socially stunt all of your kids? Because that's what happens when they go for years being the only ones in their peer groups with substantially less ability to communicate with each other.

paulcole 4y ago

Here’s a data point from someone whose parents kept technology away from me as a pre-teen/teenager as some sort of character building I-know-best exercise: They’re not a part of my life.

mrtweetyhack 4y ago
UncleEntity 4y ago
Really? My parents did some pretty messed up things to try to get me to be a better behaved kid, the ‘70s and ‘80s were a different time, and I have no resentment against them because they tried their (probably misguided) best. As kids go I was admittedly pretty difficult but the army straightened me out when I basically had the choice of joining at 17 or, who knows, didn’t see any other options at the time.
- paulcole 4y ago
  > the ‘70s and ‘80s were a different time You are correct.