7 ms·

Lets have no illusions. Teams is the absolute worst I have seen for teams. Basically every other tool I tried worked better. However, Slack isn't that much bet

Lets have no illusions. Teams is the absolute worst I have seen for teams. Basically every other tool I tried worked better. However, Slack isn't that much better. It still gaslights Firefox users and tells them their browser is not supported. What a nice way to put it, that after friggin' years, they still have not managed to implement voice chat in a standard conform way. Discord and others have had this for years! Only Slack and Teams (in browser) seem to have incapable development teams behind them, who are comfortable with gaslighting unsuspecting users into using Chromium-based browsers, furthering web mono-culture. There are so many issues with Teams, that I am wondering, what they are even working on. Surely they cannot be bugfixing all day, if so many bugs remain after years. We've had 2-3 years of pandemic now. What the heck are they doing!? They could have made the business. Instead they shove this broken thing down our throats and time will come, when people will just run away screaming, just like they did with Skype. Another business opportunity of MS ruined by bad quality software output. Stuff like that should get banned immediately, before it can harm the web any more, than it already has.

duped 4y ago
This seems unnecessarily toxic. Slack is an app first, not a webpage. Just install the app.
- kelnos 4y ago
  You mean the "app" that's just a Chrome instance that wraps the webpage, and sucks up GBs of RAM while doing so? No thanks.
  - raydev 4y ago
    I leave it running continuously for weeks on my Mac, with no issues. It is currently using 700MB across all of its processes (5 by my count). Doesn't seem like that big of a problem. I understand it used to be a much larger problem. Maybe it's time to try it out again.
    - SahAssar 4y ago
      My problem with the app isn't resource usage, it's that a chat client that's already a webpage shouldn't need me to install a app. It's ridiculous how far slack will go on purpose to not support the platform their app is built on.
      - raydev 4y ago
        As a chat client that facilitates communication with my coworkers, I don't want to limit it to a tab in Chrome. Chrome is an app that I close often, I can't recall a time I've wanted to close Slack.
        hackmiester 4y ago
        That's fair, but don't confuse your habit of quitting your Web browser for typical behavior.
        SahAssar 4y ago
        I never close my browser unless I have to, but sure that might not be the normal behavior. I still don't get why they can't give an acceptable experience on the platform they built it on without wrapping it in a useless wrapper. Keep the app, just make sure I can use your service on the platform it's built on.
        trinix912 4y ago
        That's fine but they should make it possible to use it completely in-browser as well. I'm not a fan of having five Chromium instances constantly running on my MacBook.
    - Mo3 4y ago
      Almost a GB for a chat application? I definitely see a problem there..
      - raydev 4y ago
        Memory is designed to be used. I guess if I'm memory constrained I can close it, but it's never been the source of any of my day-to-day problems while coding.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Toxic? It aligns exactly with my personal experience today. Coworkers often try to call me using Slack, but I'm always present "Nope in Firefox" dialog. And if you think the Slack app is anything other than a webpage, then you really need to look into that more. As someone else posted, it is a webpage wrapped in a bundled chromium package.
  - duped 4y ago
    It's an electron app. That's not a webpage bundled with chromium, it shares a large number of components but functions quite differently. It's not surprising that your web experience sucks relative to the app.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- stalfosknight 4y ago
  Slack is a not an app. It's a webpage bundled with an obese browser.
- zelphirkalt 4y ago
  Actually I don't want the app, as I don't trust Slack as an organization. Who knows what their app does on my computer or what it could do, even if it is an electron app? I prefer running things in the browser sandbox, at least limiting them somewhat.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  I installed the Slack app and it was even slower than using it from Firefox. There's a noticeable delay when typing (sometimes more than other times) like you're typing over ssh, and starting the thing takes just as long as just opening it in Firefox.
potatolicious 4y ago
> I am wondering, what they are even working on Without any inside knowledge, but having been part of many mega-projects like this I'm willing to take a stab at it: new features vs. QoL is a huge, huge tension that exists in projects like these. New features get new customers, and more importantly gets execs excited and people promoted. Refactors, performance improvements, etc, are almost never appropriately rewarded or prioritized, so QoL problems tend to accumulate until a crisis moment, where the organization is forced to shift priorities to address a user experience that has badly degraded to the point of significant customer revolt. I saw this with a front-row seat with Google Maps: features kept getting piled in to the app (did you want to know what the most popular dishes at a restaurant is? Now you can!) while renderer performance continually regressed, map overlay rendering bugs accumulated, and the original "slippy map" UX degraded. At this point the mobile app is deeply unpleasant to use - it hitches regularly and has trouble hitting 60FPS even on top-flight flagship phones. The product clearly hasn't reached the "crisis" moment yet, but it is on a trajectory to. Teams seems like it might be at (or near) the crisis moment. It's a shame that organizational dynamics prevent these sorts of issues from deteriorating to this point, but it's a pretty common feature among product teams to prioritize new feature dev while existing (and way more core) features degrade.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  The Google Maps site and application are both deeply unpleasant to use if only because, when you click on a search result, the fucking map doesn't zoom in from an almost state-level view to show you where the fuck the listing is.
  - potatolicious 4y ago
    Yeah, that's the kind of basic QoL stuff that's really the nuts and bolts of a product, but tend to get glossed over in planning. When working out their OKRs teams generally do not have an entire Objective for "iterate, prevent regressions, and improve upon existing core features". They instead have a litany of Objectives to add completely new things. Performance regressions are just the tip of that iceberg (though it is most noticeable), but a component of this upkeep is keeping up with the competition on your core already-shipped stuff. IMO Apple Maps' zoom behavior, rendering behavior, overlay behavior, etc, are far superior to Google's. It wouldn't be rocket science to implement their version of these changes, but clearly it's not being prioritized.
202206241203 4y ago
Teams works fine, just don't use exotic laptops, even if they are machined from solid aluminium.
gsk22 4y ago
> However, Slack isn't that much better. It still gaslights Firefox users and tells them their browser is not supported. Where do you see that? I exclusively use Firefox and have never seen such a message from Slack.
- lkramer 4y ago
  If you use the built in "huddle" or voice chat.
mrtksn 4y ago
There's Ripcord[0], which is a native app that can connect to Slack and Discord. [0] https://cancel.fm/ripcord/ https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
- suction 4y ago
  Nice, I'll go ahead and propose to my company that has everything on Azure and is a total MS whore to switch their 10000-somewhat employees over to Discord.
Beltalowda 4y ago
> It still gaslights Firefox users and tells them their browser is not supported I checked in to this a few weeks, and it really doesn't work for technical reasons. They use some deprecated experimental Chrome API (which is also slated for removal). Slack in general is an absolute mess in terms of engineering. It just so happens that I had to use Teams the other day for a job interview, and at the last possible moment it notified me that Firefox doesn't work for video :-/ Had to hastily install Chromium. Didn't look in to the reasons for that.
pipeline_peak 4y ago
kyriakos 4y ago
I can tell you something they are working on and its not bug fixing but more bloat: They are adding games to teams so you can play solitaire while having a call. Not sure what kind of product manager thought that is a good idea but here it is! https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/14/23167384/microsoft-teams-games-solitaire-wordament-testing https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/14/23167384/microsoft-teams-...

duped 4y ago

This seems unnecessarily toxic. Slack is an app first, not a webpage. Just install the app.

kelnos 4y ago
You mean the "app" that's just a Chrome instance that wraps the webpage, and sucks up GBs of RAM while doing so? No thanks.
- raydev 4y ago
  I leave it running continuously for weeks on my Mac, with no issues. It is currently using 700MB across all of its processes (5 by my count). Doesn't seem like that big of a problem. I understand it used to be a much larger problem. Maybe it's time to try it out again.
  - SahAssar 4y ago
    My problem with the app isn't resource usage, it's that a chat client that's already a webpage shouldn't need me to install a app. It's ridiculous how far slack will go on purpose to not support the platform their app is built on.
    - raydev 4y ago
      As a chat client that facilitates communication with my coworkers, I don't want to limit it to a tab in Chrome. Chrome is an app that I close often, I can't recall a time I've wanted to close Slack.
      - hackmiester 4y ago
        That's fair, but don't confuse your habit of quitting your Web browser for typical behavior.
      - SahAssar 4y ago
        I never close my browser unless I have to, but sure that might not be the normal behavior. I still don't get why they can't give an acceptable experience on the platform they built it on without wrapping it in a useless wrapper. Keep the app, just make sure I can use your service on the platform it's built on.
      - trinix912 4y ago
        That's fine but they should make it possible to use it completely in-browser as well. I'm not a fan of having five Chromium instances constantly running on my MacBook.
  - Mo3 4y ago
    Almost a GB for a chat application? I definitely see a problem there..
    - raydev 4y ago
      Memory is designed to be used. I guess if I'm memory constrained I can close it, but it's never been the source of any of my day-to-day problems while coding.
dylan604 4y ago
Toxic? It aligns exactly with my personal experience today. Coworkers often try to call me using Slack, but I'm always present "Nope in Firefox" dialog. And if you think the Slack app is anything other than a webpage, then you really need to look into that more. As someone else posted, it is a webpage wrapped in a bundled chromium package.
- duped 4y ago
  It's an electron app. That's not a webpage bundled with chromium, it shares a large number of components but functions quite differently. It's not surprising that your web experience sucks relative to the app.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
stalfosknight 4y ago
Slack is a not an app. It's a webpage bundled with an obese browser.
zelphirkalt 4y ago
Actually I don't want the app, as I don't trust Slack as an organization. Who knows what their app does on my computer or what it could do, even if it is an electron app? I prefer running things in the browser sandbox, at least limiting them somewhat.
Beltalowda 4y ago
I installed the Slack app and it was even slower than using it from Firefox. There's a noticeable delay when typing (sometimes more than other times) like you're typing over ssh, and starting the thing takes just as long as just opening it in Firefox.

potatolicious 4y ago

> I am wondering, what they are even working on Without any inside knowledge, but having been part of many mega-projects like this I'm willing to take a stab at it: new features vs. QoL is a huge, huge tension that exists in projects like these. New features get new customers, and more importantly gets execs excited and people promoted. Refactors, performance improvements, etc, are almost never appropriately rewarded or prioritized, so QoL problems tend to accumulate until a crisis moment, where the organization is forced to shift priorities to address a user experience that has badly degraded to the point of significant customer revolt. I saw this with a front-row seat with Google Maps: features kept getting piled in to the app (did you want to know what the most popular dishes at a restaurant is? Now you can!) while renderer performance continually regressed, map overlay rendering bugs accumulated, and the original "slippy map" UX degraded. At this point the mobile app is deeply unpleasant to use - it hitches regularly and has trouble hitting 60FPS even on top-flight flagship phones. The product clearly hasn't reached the "crisis" moment yet, but it is on a trajectory to. Teams seems like it might be at (or near) the crisis moment. It's a shame that organizational dynamics prevent these sorts of issues from deteriorating to this point, but it's a pretty common feature among product teams to prioritize new feature dev while existing (and way more core) features degrade.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
The Google Maps site and application are both deeply unpleasant to use if only because, when you click on a search result, the fucking map doesn't zoom in from an almost state-level view to show you where the fuck the listing is.
- potatolicious 4y ago
  Yeah, that's the kind of basic QoL stuff that's really the nuts and bolts of a product, but tend to get glossed over in planning. When working out their OKRs teams generally do not have an entire Objective for "iterate, prevent regressions, and improve upon existing core features". They instead have a litany of Objectives to add completely new things. Performance regressions are just the tip of that iceberg (though it is most noticeable), but a component of this upkeep is keeping up with the competition on your core already-shipped stuff. IMO Apple Maps' zoom behavior, rendering behavior, overlay behavior, etc, are far superior to Google's. It wouldn't be rocket science to implement their version of these changes, but clearly it's not being prioritized.

202206241203 4y ago

Teams works fine, just don't use exotic laptops, even if they are machined from solid aluminium.

gsk22 4y ago

> However, Slack isn't that much better. It still gaslights Firefox users and tells them their browser is not supported. Where do you see that? I exclusively use Firefox and have never seen such a message from Slack.

lkramer 4y ago
If you use the built in "huddle" or voice chat.

mrtksn 4y ago

There's Ripcord[0], which is a native app that can connect to Slack and Discord. [0] https://cancel.fm/ripcord/ https://cancel.fm/ripcord/

suction 4y ago
Nice, I'll go ahead and propose to my company that has everything on Azure and is a total MS whore to switch their 10000-somewhat employees over to Discord.

Beltalowda 4y ago

> It still gaslights Firefox users and tells them their browser is not supported I checked in to this a few weeks, and it really doesn't work for technical reasons. They use some deprecated experimental Chrome API (which is also slated for removal). Slack in general is an absolute mess in terms of engineering. It just so happens that I had to use Teams the other day for a job interview, and at the last possible moment it notified me that Firefox doesn't work for video :-/ Had to hastily install Chromium. Didn't look in to the reasons for that.

pipeline_peak 4y ago

kyriakos 4y ago

I can tell you something they are working on and its not bug fixing but more bloat: They are adding games to teams so you can play solitaire while having a call. Not sure what kind of product manager thought that is a good idea but here it is! https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/14/23167384/microsoft-teams-games-solitaire-wordament-testing https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/14/23167384/microsoft-teams-...