3 ms·

> The correct form would be "Me and Mel accused her". No it isn't. You'd never say "Me accused her". If you don't like the inversion its perfectly fine to say

> The correct form would be "Me and Mel accused her". No it isn't. You'd never say "Me accused her". If you don't like the inversion its perfectly fine to say "I and Mel accused her", but using "me" for the subject is never correct.

thaumasiotes 4y ago
> but using "me" for the subject [within a coordinated subject] is never correct. Why do you believe this?
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Because it is true. If you believe otherwise, you are tragically misinformed and miseducated. Using "me" in subject context is, besides being wrong, a social low-class marker. It does not come naturally to English speakers; it only ever occurs through exposure to the misuse.
  - schoen 4y ago
    I'm a bit skeptical of this overall, but it's obviously complicated to get data that filter out the effects of sociolectal solidarity. (Can you get people to speak "naturally" but without priming them to speak or to avoid speaking in a particular register or sociolect!?) There are well-known phenomena like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attraction_(grammar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attraction_(grammar) which can become conventionalized and eventually part of native speakers' intuitions even though they can be contrary to a more logically consistent or simpler understanding of agreement.
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > Using "me" in subject context is, besides being wrong, a social low-class marker. It does not come naturally to English speakers This is not even a theoretical possibility. There are no low-class markers that don't come naturally, because no one is going to make an effort to present themselves as low-class.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      It takes obvious effort to overcome received habits from one's local idiolect, as for example underclass people did in England, last century, deliberately adopting an (imperfectly reproduced version of) the overclass rhotic affectation in an attempt at economic advancement. You are getting really disingenuous, now. Who are you performing for?
- catskul2 4y ago
  Not the OP, but the alternative requires that either: - "Me fail English." is considered to be a well formed construction, or that... - ...adding a conjunction is important in determining whether "I" or "Me" is should be used. It's just not the case that either of those are true in standard English. While, in theory, you can have any rule you want within some sub-dialect, that would be a very strange rule indeed.

thaumasiotes 4y ago

> but using "me" for the subject [within a coordinated subject] is never correct. Why do you believe this?

ncmncm 4y ago
Because it is true. If you believe otherwise, you are tragically misinformed and miseducated. Using "me" in subject context is, besides being wrong, a social low-class marker. It does not come naturally to English speakers; it only ever occurs through exposure to the misuse.
- schoen 4y ago
  I'm a bit skeptical of this overall, but it's obviously complicated to get data that filter out the effects of sociolectal solidarity. (Can you get people to speak "naturally" but without priming them to speak or to avoid speaking in a particular register or sociolect!?) There are well-known phenomena like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attraction_(grammar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attraction_(grammar) which can become conventionalized and eventually part of native speakers' intuitions even though they can be contrary to a more logically consistent or simpler understanding of agreement.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  > Using "me" in subject context is, besides being wrong, a social low-class marker. It does not come naturally to English speakers This is not even a theoretical possibility. There are no low-class markers that don't come naturally, because no one is going to make an effort to present themselves as low-class.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    It takes obvious effort to overcome received habits from one's local idiolect, as for example underclass people did in England, last century, deliberately adopting an (imperfectly reproduced version of) the overclass rhotic affectation in an attempt at economic advancement. You are getting really disingenuous, now. Who are you performing for?
catskul2 4y ago
Not the OP, but the alternative requires that either: - "Me fail English." is considered to be a well formed construction, or that... - ...adding a conjunction is important in determining whether "I" or "Me" is should be used. It's just not the case that either of those are true in standard English. While, in theory, you can have any rule you want within some sub-dialect, that would be a very strange rule indeed.