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Teams definitely sucks, but this statement made me chuckle >Teams is murdering my MacBook Pro 16" i9 with 16GB RAM every day. This was supposed to be the most

Teams definitely sucks, but this statement made me chuckle >Teams is murdering my MacBook Pro 16" i9 with 16GB RAM every day. This was supposed to be the most kick-a$$ laptop at the time Its quite surprising how supposedly tech people are actually out of touch with tech.

lghh 4y ago
I don't understand. What's specifically out of touch about this?
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  First, the specs on the Intel MBP weren't even top of the line. You could get laptops with slighyl higher spec CPUs, and much better discrete graphics like the 2080 that blew the AMD graphics in MBPs out of the water. Secondly, and most importantly, having a powerful chip, in a small chassis without adequate cooling = hard thermal throttling. The M1 chips are an upgrade on top of this with much less power draw for same performance, however both M1 Air and Pro still throttle, and M2 will throttle most likely more. If you want top of the line performance in a laptop, you have to buy one of those bulky ones with very loud fans, and expect that running at full performance on battery will drain the battery quickly There is no way around this. And to call those machines "laptops" is really a misnomer even, considering that its almost painful having them on your lap due to the heat.
  - lghh 4y ago
    Not every single word has to be read 100% literally every time you read it. It is a very powerful laptop. In the top .5% of laptops purchased in the year it was purchased, most likely. It does not have to literally be the most powerful laptop a person can buy. I think everyone reading that sentence understood that but you.
    - ActorNightly 4y ago
      Do you understand what thermal throttling means? It means your powerful-on-paper computer becomes just as powerful as a much lower priced computer. And that is also assuming that the rest of the computer is good. Lets not forget the horrendous touchbar, the multitude of bugs in the OS, the lack of ports and hubs that have issues and in some cases end up frying the smc, shoddy external monitor compatibility and so on. Issues that my much cheaper laptop that is running linux does not have.
      - lghh 4y ago
        > Do you understand what thermal throttling means? Yes. Don't patronize me. You're, presumably intentionally, missing the point of what I and everyone who has responded to you is saying. I am going to exit the conversation because it is clear that you're not interested in actually understanding what anyone is trying to explain to you about how people typically communicate with one another. I'd like to remind you that this conversation was not about how "powerful" a given laptop is, but rather about how people talk about things in relation to one another and how people tend to speak to one another colloquially. Have a great day.
ripper1138 4y ago
Out of touch? That was a top of the line laptop when it was released and it cost >$2000
- dbrueck 4y ago
  Citing the cost of an Apple product doesn't really add weight to your point. :)
dividedbyzero 4y ago
I think you're more out of touch here, though. Apple did have a number of iterations that used outdated chips, but IIRC the 16" i9 was part of the generation that finally caught up with the rest of the high-end market before they crushed the competition with the M1. Those definitely weren't slow by any realistic metric and I don't think there was that much competition at this level of portability.
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  Lets not pretend that people actually are willingly making the tradeoff of some performance for portability when it comes to Macbooks. Many, many technically minded people are convinced that Macbooks are the best performing laptops there are, completely oblivious to physical laws surrounding heat transfer. Meanwhile, the crowd that builds their desktops up from scratch seems to be well aware of this.
  - dividedbyzero 4y ago
    I'm sure most "technically-minded" people will be well aware that a desktop would offer better performance. I'm equally sure portability does play a big role in taking or issuing a laptop for most people. Kinda hard to take a desktop along for wfh days or travel... Besides, the Apple Silicon ones do come out first in tons of benchmarks and the thermals of the 16" ones have received a lot of praise. There may be some desktop-in-a-laptop-shell monsters that outperform them, but for most workloads a 16" M1 Max should be very hard to beat. I have a M1 Pro from work and it's a beast, does a bunch of stressful things a lot faster than my built-from-scratch desktop (not brand new but also not ancient). Maybe read up on Apple silicon and Macbook thermals, a lot has changed since 2018.
    - ActorNightly 4y ago
      My honest complaint isn't even with the Macbooks. They are not that bad, just overpriced, unless you consider the "enjoyment" (a.k.a vanity) of a product aesthetics worth spending money on. In the same way many people buy performance sports cars only to drive at speed limit 99% of the time. Besides thermal throttling, there are plenty of issues afoot that simply don't exist compared to a laptop with well supported linux hardware running a lightweight distro. The problem is that the general myth of them being "top tier", which solely comes from aesthetics because they will fail any comparable real world use case test against comparable options, causes them to be so prevalent with developers. Take every single Amazon developer for instance - each of them has a private VM "dev-desktop" for development, because while all the services people develop run on AWS in a Linux environment, they want to be an attractive employer and bling out their developers with an MBP. So now instead of the correct solution of just issuing everyone Linux laptops (and before you say that its not a reliable solution, consider that you are saying that a company that built and runs the behemoth that is AWS can't hire competent dev ops/it to provision Linux on developer laptops), they waste way more resources, internal tooling sucks (they have a tool that basically rsyncs directories over ssh just so you can develop on your mac), and causes additional issues due to incompatibility of some JNI native libraries, case sensitivity of the file system, e.t.c.
epolanski 4y ago
I've got the same top of the line MBP 2020. How in the hell does it performs worse as a native application than google meets does inside the browser on a 10 years older piece of hardware?

lghh 4y ago

I don't understand. What's specifically out of touch about this?

ActorNightly 4y ago
First, the specs on the Intel MBP weren't even top of the line. You could get laptops with slighyl higher spec CPUs, and much better discrete graphics like the 2080 that blew the AMD graphics in MBPs out of the water. Secondly, and most importantly, having a powerful chip, in a small chassis without adequate cooling = hard thermal throttling. The M1 chips are an upgrade on top of this with much less power draw for same performance, however both M1 Air and Pro still throttle, and M2 will throttle most likely more. If you want top of the line performance in a laptop, you have to buy one of those bulky ones with very loud fans, and expect that running at full performance on battery will drain the battery quickly There is no way around this. And to call those machines "laptops" is really a misnomer even, considering that its almost painful having them on your lap due to the heat.
- lghh 4y ago
  Not every single word has to be read 100% literally every time you read it. It is a very powerful laptop. In the top .5% of laptops purchased in the year it was purchased, most likely. It does not have to literally be the most powerful laptop a person can buy. I think everyone reading that sentence understood that but you.
  - ActorNightly 4y ago
    Do you understand what thermal throttling means? It means your powerful-on-paper computer becomes just as powerful as a much lower priced computer. And that is also assuming that the rest of the computer is good. Lets not forget the horrendous touchbar, the multitude of bugs in the OS, the lack of ports and hubs that have issues and in some cases end up frying the smc, shoddy external monitor compatibility and so on. Issues that my much cheaper laptop that is running linux does not have.
    - lghh 4y ago
      > Do you understand what thermal throttling means? Yes. Don't patronize me. You're, presumably intentionally, missing the point of what I and everyone who has responded to you is saying. I am going to exit the conversation because it is clear that you're not interested in actually understanding what anyone is trying to explain to you about how people typically communicate with one another. I'd like to remind you that this conversation was not about how "powerful" a given laptop is, but rather about how people talk about things in relation to one another and how people tend to speak to one another colloquially. Have a great day.

ripper1138 4y ago

Out of touch? That was a top of the line laptop when it was released and it cost >$2000

dbrueck 4y ago
Citing the cost of an Apple product doesn't really add weight to your point. :)

dividedbyzero 4y ago

I think you're more out of touch here, though. Apple did have a number of iterations that used outdated chips, but IIRC the 16" i9 was part of the generation that finally caught up with the rest of the high-end market before they crushed the competition with the M1. Those definitely weren't slow by any realistic metric and I don't think there was that much competition at this level of portability.

ActorNightly 4y ago
Lets not pretend that people actually are willingly making the tradeoff of some performance for portability when it comes to Macbooks. Many, many technically minded people are convinced that Macbooks are the best performing laptops there are, completely oblivious to physical laws surrounding heat transfer. Meanwhile, the crowd that builds their desktops up from scratch seems to be well aware of this.
- dividedbyzero 4y ago
  I'm sure most "technically-minded" people will be well aware that a desktop would offer better performance. I'm equally sure portability does play a big role in taking or issuing a laptop for most people. Kinda hard to take a desktop along for wfh days or travel... Besides, the Apple Silicon ones do come out first in tons of benchmarks and the thermals of the 16" ones have received a lot of praise. There may be some desktop-in-a-laptop-shell monsters that outperform them, but for most workloads a 16" M1 Max should be very hard to beat. I have a M1 Pro from work and it's a beast, does a bunch of stressful things a lot faster than my built-from-scratch desktop (not brand new but also not ancient). Maybe read up on Apple silicon and Macbook thermals, a lot has changed since 2018.
  - ActorNightly 4y ago
    My honest complaint isn't even with the Macbooks. They are not that bad, just overpriced, unless you consider the "enjoyment" (a.k.a vanity) of a product aesthetics worth spending money on. In the same way many people buy performance sports cars only to drive at speed limit 99% of the time. Besides thermal throttling, there are plenty of issues afoot that simply don't exist compared to a laptop with well supported linux hardware running a lightweight distro. The problem is that the general myth of them being "top tier", which solely comes from aesthetics because they will fail any comparable real world use case test against comparable options, causes them to be so prevalent with developers. Take every single Amazon developer for instance - each of them has a private VM "dev-desktop" for development, because while all the services people develop run on AWS in a Linux environment, they want to be an attractive employer and bling out their developers with an MBP. So now instead of the correct solution of just issuing everyone Linux laptops (and before you say that its not a reliable solution, consider that you are saying that a company that built and runs the behemoth that is AWS can't hire competent dev ops/it to provision Linux on developer laptops), they waste way more resources, internal tooling sucks (they have a tool that basically rsyncs directories over ssh just so you can develop on your mac), and causes additional issues due to incompatibility of some JNI native libraries, case sensitivity of the file system, e.t.c.

epolanski 4y ago

I've got the same top of the line MBP 2020. How in the hell does it performs worse as a native application than google meets does inside the browser on a 10 years older piece of hardware?