2 ms·

You linked to the near-meaningless short-term data. I think gp commenter was referring to https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v1.supplem

You linked to the near-meaningless short-term data. I think gp commenter was referring to https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v1.supplementary-material https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v... with 15 deaths in the vaccine arm and 14 in the placebo arm. If this were, say, a hair-loss cure those numbers would be fine, just random chance. But for a drug that is supposed to save lives in the midst of what we used to be told was a world ending pandemic, these numbers are indicative of a bad joke.

credit_guy 4y ago
The 15 and 14 deaths were deaths of all causes, not deaths due to Covid. During the blinded, controlled period, 15 BNT162b2 and 14 placebo recipients died; during the open-label period, 3 BNT162b2 and 2 original placebo recipients who received BNT162b2 after unblinding died. None of these deaths were considered related to BNT162b2 by investigators. Causes of death were balanced between BNT162b2 and placebo groups Here’s the statement about efficacy against severe Covid Of 31 cases of severe, FDA-defined COVID-19 with onset post-dose 1, 30 occurred in placebo recipients, corresponding to 96.7% VE (95% CI 80.3-99.9) against severe COVID-19. So, the vaccinated arm had a single severe Covid case, which may or may not have ended in the death of the patient, we are not told. But certainly, not more than one of the 15 deaths in the vaccinated arm can be attributed to Covid.
- origin_path 4y ago
  Why do you think that matters? You cannot simply look at effectiveness against a single endpoint and ignore other outcomes as otherwise you would conclude that cyanide is a 100% effective vaccination against any disease. The goal was to reduce death and illness, not merely move it around, yet the trial data didn't allow any conclusions on whether vaccines save lives or end them overall. Nor did they allow for any assessment of reduction in "severe" COVID, hospitalization or transmission, despite many later claims about these things, as none of these terms were defined or measured in the RCTs: https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/covid-19-vaccine-trials-cannot-tell-us-if-they-will-save-lives/ https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/covid-19-vaccine-trials... Finally, the 95% effective number was clearly wrong. No real world data backed up that number and in fact measured, real world effectiveness started plunging immediately once the mass rollout began. By the time the UK stopped reporting case rates by vaccine status effectiveness was strongly negative, even! It's unclear what went wrong with the trials, but since they ended various cases of trial fraud have come to light e.g. people who were very obviously crippled for life or killed by the vaccines yet who were written down in the trial as having mild "abdominal pain" or that the death wasn't vaccine related. There's no way to square any of these events with the trials having integrity. https://thecovidblog.com/2021/07/08/maddie-de-garay-ohio-13-year-old-cannot-and-did-not-consent-to-vaccine-clinical-trials/ https://thecovidblog.com/2021/07/08/maddie-de-garay-ohio-13-... https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/pfizer-study-subject-c4591001-1162 https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/pfizer-study-subject-c4591... https://dailysceptic.org/2022/05/23/concerns-of-fraud-in-pfizer-vaccine-trial-as-participants-hospitalisation-with-heart-inflammation-is-swept-under-carpet/ https://dailysceptic.org/2022/05/23/concerns-of-fraud-in-pfi...

credit_guy 4y ago

The 15 and 14 deaths were deaths of all causes, not deaths due to Covid. During the blinded, controlled period, 15 BNT162b2 and 14 placebo recipients died; during the open-label period, 3 BNT162b2 and 2 original placebo recipients who received BNT162b2 after unblinding died. None of these deaths were considered related to BNT162b2 by investigators. Causes of death were balanced between BNT162b2 and placebo groups Here’s the statement about efficacy against severe Covid Of 31 cases of severe, FDA-defined COVID-19 with onset post-dose 1, 30 occurred in placebo recipients, corresponding to 96.7% VE (95% CI 80.3-99.9) against severe COVID-19. So, the vaccinated arm had a single severe Covid case, which may or may not have ended in the death of the patient, we are not told. But certainly, not more than one of the 15 deaths in the vaccinated arm can be attributed to Covid.

origin_path 4y ago
Why do you think that matters? You cannot simply look at effectiveness against a single endpoint and ignore other outcomes as otherwise you would conclude that cyanide is a 100% effective vaccination against any disease. The goal was to reduce death and illness, not merely move it around, yet the trial data didn't allow any conclusions on whether vaccines save lives or end them overall. Nor did they allow for any assessment of reduction in "severe" COVID, hospitalization or transmission, despite many later claims about these things, as none of these terms were defined or measured in the RCTs: https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/covid-19-vaccine-trials-cannot-tell-us-if-they-will-save-lives/ https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/covid-19-vaccine-trials... Finally, the 95% effective number was clearly wrong. No real world data backed up that number and in fact measured, real world effectiveness started plunging immediately once the mass rollout began. By the time the UK stopped reporting case rates by vaccine status effectiveness was strongly negative, even! It's unclear what went wrong with the trials, but since they ended various cases of trial fraud have come to light e.g. people who were very obviously crippled for life or killed by the vaccines yet who were written down in the trial as having mild "abdominal pain" or that the death wasn't vaccine related. There's no way to square any of these events with the trials having integrity. https://thecovidblog.com/2021/07/08/maddie-de-garay-ohio-13-year-old-cannot-and-did-not-consent-to-vaccine-clinical-trials/ https://thecovidblog.com/2021/07/08/maddie-de-garay-ohio-13-... https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/pfizer-study-subject-c4591001-1162 https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/pfizer-study-subject-c4591... https://dailysceptic.org/2022/05/23/concerns-of-fraud-in-pfizer-vaccine-trial-as-participants-hospitalisation-with-heart-inflammation-is-swept-under-carpet/ https://dailysceptic.org/2022/05/23/concerns-of-fraud-in-pfi...