4 ms·

Some newspapers require subscribers to call a phone number to cancel their subscription. I refuse to subscribe to any service I can't unsubscribe from in a few

Some newspapers require subscribers to call a phone number to cancel their subscription. I refuse to subscribe to any service I can't unsubscribe from in a few clicks, regardless of the content.

buscoquadnary 4y ago
Had that happen with the WSJ, will never subscribe to them again. Plus they had limited hours in one time zone.
- CoastalCoder 4y ago
  I wonder if we can (legally) fight using the same methods that the companies use. E.g., suppose their phone system can handle 1000 people in queue + 20 live conversations. Companies keep the callers waiting, with no regard to the cost to the caller, so the company can minimize their customer-service costs. So how about we even things up? Create company-specific automated services that call in using customer-oriented robots. Have logic that knows how to navigate each company's phone system to reach an appropriate real person. And once they reach a live customer service rep, play the message, "Thank you for your business. We value you as a vendor, and will connect you with your customer as soon as possible! Your expected wait time is...", and have them wait while this middle-man service gets your attention.
  - salawat 4y ago
    Your Call Center workers would be instructed to hang up immediately, and systems would be programmed to try to recognize that system. You have hit on something important though: Customer call centers are generally one of the first places to be aggressively ootimized, and if you hace a call center that has long queue times, this is a powerful signal about what management really thinks is important.
    - CoastalCoder 4y ago
      > Your Call Center workers would be instructed to hang up immediately, and systems would be programmed to try to recognize that system. I'm curious if this has the potential to become an arms race similar to email spam generation / detection. Although perhaps in the U.S., STIR/SHAKEN would mean more creativity is required.
    - shiftpgdn 4y ago
      Many call centers do not allow the workers to disconnect the call without going through some sort of formal procedure, so this could be exploited until that policy changes.
  - yesplorer 4y ago
    why will they wait?
    - CoastalCoder 4y ago
      I'm not sure about the legalities, but some possible answers are: a) Because the automated system will continue to call them until they connect a real person to the customer. b) If the law is silent about which party can impose bureaucratic hassles on the other, then perhaps this system would satisfy some legal obligations. I.e., if the law allows a business to argue, "The customer who wanted to cancel their subscription never stayed on the phone long enough tell that to our customer service rep!", then perhaps the law also allows a customer to argue, "I tried to cancel my subscription, but they kept hanging up on my voice menu system!" Perhaps I misunderstand the law, but my (potential) pet peeve is that businesses get away with imposing time-consuming, costly friction on their customers in the form of paperwork, call-waiting time, etc. I think it would be just for customers to repay that in kind.
pelagicAustral 4y ago
Yeah, The Times (UK) does this, you cannot unsub unless you call a help-line that is firewalled by Rube-Goldberg UI contraption that takes rubix cube levels of motivation to get through.
est31 4y ago
In Germany, a new rule (§312k BGB) has come into effect on Jul 1st (a few days ago!), that if a provider offers people to open new contracts on the internet, the provider is also required to let customers cancel their subscriptions via a button on the website. If there is no such button, customers can cancel any time. Links in German. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__312k.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__312k.html https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/suche/faire-verbrauchervertraege-1829172 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/suche/faire-verbrauch... https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/aktuelle-meldungen/vertraege-reklamation/kuendigungsbutton-vertraege-ab-1-juli-mit-wenigen-klicks-kuendigen-74564 https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/aktuelle-meldungen/vertra...

Some newspapers require subscribers to call a phone number to cancel their subscription. I refuse to subscribe to any service I can't unsubscribe from in a few clicks, regardless of the content.

buscoquadnary 4y ago

Had that happen with the WSJ, will never subscribe to them again. Plus they had limited hours in one time zone.

CoastalCoder 4y ago
I wonder if we can (legally) fight using the same methods that the companies use. E.g., suppose their phone system can handle 1000 people in queue + 20 live conversations. Companies keep the callers waiting, with no regard to the cost to the caller, so the company can minimize their customer-service costs. So how about we even things up? Create company-specific automated services that call in using customer-oriented robots. Have logic that knows how to navigate each company's phone system to reach an appropriate real person. And once they reach a live customer service rep, play the message, "Thank you for your business. We value you as a vendor, and will connect you with your customer as soon as possible! Your expected wait time is...", and have them wait while this middle-man service gets your attention.
- salawat 4y ago
  Your Call Center workers would be instructed to hang up immediately, and systems would be programmed to try to recognize that system. You have hit on something important though: Customer call centers are generally one of the first places to be aggressively ootimized, and if you hace a call center that has long queue times, this is a powerful signal about what management really thinks is important.
  - CoastalCoder 4y ago
    > Your Call Center workers would be instructed to hang up immediately, and systems would be programmed to try to recognize that system. I'm curious if this has the potential to become an arms race similar to email spam generation / detection. Although perhaps in the U.S., STIR/SHAKEN would mean more creativity is required.
  - shiftpgdn 4y ago
    Many call centers do not allow the workers to disconnect the call without going through some sort of formal procedure, so this could be exploited until that policy changes.
- yesplorer 4y ago
  why will they wait?
  - CoastalCoder 4y ago
    I'm not sure about the legalities, but some possible answers are: a) Because the automated system will continue to call them until they connect a real person to the customer. b) If the law is silent about which party can impose bureaucratic hassles on the other, then perhaps this system would satisfy some legal obligations. I.e., if the law allows a business to argue, "The customer who wanted to cancel their subscription never stayed on the phone long enough tell that to our customer service rep!", then perhaps the law also allows a customer to argue, "I tried to cancel my subscription, but they kept hanging up on my voice menu system!" Perhaps I misunderstand the law, but my (potential) pet peeve is that businesses get away with imposing time-consuming, costly friction on their customers in the form of paperwork, call-waiting time, etc. I think it would be just for customers to repay that in kind.

pelagicAustral 4y ago

Yeah, The Times (UK) does this, you cannot unsub unless you call a help-line that is firewalled by Rube-Goldberg UI contraption that takes rubix cube levels of motivation to get through.

est31 4y ago

In Germany, a new rule (§312k BGB) has come into effect on Jul 1st (a few days ago!), that if a provider offers people to open new contracts on the internet, the provider is also required to let customers cancel their subscriptions via a button on the website. If there is no such button, customers can cancel any time. Links in German. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__312k.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/__312k.html https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/suche/faire-verbrauchervertraege-1829172 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/suche/faire-verbrauch... https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/aktuelle-meldungen/vertraege-reklamation/kuendigungsbutton-vertraege-ab-1-juli-mit-wenigen-klicks-kuendigen-74564 https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/aktuelle-meldungen/vertra...